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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
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Originally Posted by BDunnell
Wow. You guys are either dense or willing to act stupid just to further your agenda.
The RIGHT to own Guns costs NOTHING. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Wow. You guys are either dense or willing to act stupid just to further your agenda.
The RIGHT to own Guns costs NOTHING. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA!
That just displays your ignorance of firearms and your total lack of tolerance for freedomQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I blame the parents of the killer. Even though they are wealthy they refused to get treatment for their obviously mentally unstable offspring and the Local Police who took over 20 minutes to arrive on the scene when called. Like most killers of this type he took his own life as soon as an armed resistance arrived. in this case even though he still had many rounds of ammo left and plenty of potential victims he turned the gun on himself as soon as he heard the sirens.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Like most killers of this type he was a coward who attacked where it was most likely nobody would have offered armed resistance.
How much does the right to free healthcare cost then?
No, Tony. By the same token, you may as well define anything as a 'right'. By your line of 'thought' (I use the term loosely), one could say that it's a right to have a flat-screen TV. After all, the right to have one costs nothing. Your point is meaningless.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Unlike you, Tony, many of us don't solely define 'freedom' in terms of the right to firearm ownership. You may like to spout the term over and over again, but your manner of so doing is utterly, spectacularly trite.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
As a right-winger, you should, surely, believe in direct personal responsibility being taken. Therefore, you should be blaming the killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I just see it as an error to believe that anyone and everyone who does not subscribe to my belief system is in some way defective.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Determining that what other people fear is justified or not seems more of a subjectively arrived at conclusion than an objective one. I'm 6'3" and about 225. My girlfriend is 5'5" and I guess about 120. What might be an unjustified fear for me could be a very justified fear for her - especially in say, a bear attack. See, I can't outrun a bear, but I can outrun her. She's got a lot to worry about, IMO. Sounds like she either needs to buy a gun or find herself a boyfriend who wouldn't sacrifice her to Yogi Bear in his bid for self-preservation. But oddly enough, considering my views and our relationship, she's very anti-gun. Go figure.Quote:
Given your (genuine, I know) desire to adopt a data-driven approach, I'm surprised you don't immediately come to the view that such fears are unjustified, as is any practical basis for gun ownership. After all, the risk of being in a situation in which possession of a firearm is worthwhile in a practical sense, not to say proportionate, is very small indeed, is it not?
And yes, I agree that (statistically speaking) the chances of actually needing and using a gun in a violent confrontation are small indeed. As well, statistically speaking, most cops will never even draw their guns, much less ever shoot anyone over the course of their careers. Statistically speaking, most people will never file a fire insurance claim. Looking at stats tells me that if firearms are being bought solely for self-defense, they'll likely never be needed or drawn. Most people who own guns will probably never shoot anything more than a paper target. But I am unable to tell a woman living alone, a cop making a traffic stop or the guy who just put his life savings into building a house that their fears are unjustified just because I have stats that say so. I understand the point you're trying to make though. So with that said, do some people take it too far? Do some people take it to extremes, as if there are bandits behind every tree and boogeymen hiding under their beds? Do some people (like that paranoid schizo, "stand-your-ground", failed wannabe cop in Florida) start more trouble than would ever come their way if they just minded their own business? Absolutely! Some do. How much of the problem are these people... what percentage? How much of the problem are so called, falsely named "assault weapons"? Those people and those weapons tend to be the ones who make the funny papers, but they are statistical outliers. So in addressing the problem, by training, I would look at those items which would yield the biggest positive effect for the least amount of cost/effort. There's nothing so unique about this issue that the same methodology that I use on a daily basis wouldn't work here. And it's a damn sight better than everybody getting all red in the face and just screaming that their way is the only way.
Without wanting to sound too arrogant (yeah, I'm so perfect that I can't stand myself, Ioan... and you probably can't stand me either! :D ), I do fully believe that if people of my professional ilk were tasked with reducing gun violence by some initial, realistic, prescribed amount, it could be done in a way that very few Americans would object to one bit. At least you'd have something to start with... something meaningful and effective to build on. But that's not what is going to happen. Just like here, there's going to be a lot of hyperbole and emotional silliness (from both sides). And whatever we get will probably be very much like the health care law: some unworkable, clumsily written, piece of ineffective nothing. People will still die and be killed by firearms. They'll seize an AK from some old man and every TV station in town will turn out to take pictures of it. Exactly like our faux war on drugs... all ya gotta do is put dope on the table... bread & circuses keeps the masses happy. :dozey:
If I was a rich man, I don't guess I'd care. Like Teddy Kennedy used to, I'd likely call for a ban on all privately owned firearms in America... while I had a private team of men carrying fully automatic mini Uzis watching my back. Must be nice. Only I think he had an armor plated Mercedes. So ya know, I'd have to have an armor plated... (wait for it) Jaguar XJ long wheelbase! Yeah man! :cool:
Yeah, but does it shoot missiles? Traffic jams can be a bitch!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
On a serious note, there are places around the country where gun buy back programs are taking place.
Some citizens are being pro active by doing what they think is helpful.
I like that.
Plenty, when the government taxes it's citizens in order to provide that "free" healthcare to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
....and how much would you be taxed for this, and how would that compare to the amount you have to pay for medical insurance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter