another school shooting in U.S. of A. :(

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29th December 2012, 19:13
ioan

Back to the thread subject now, the death of 20 innocent children and their teachers, killed with guns that belong in the best case in the hands of policemen and military.

Most people from outside the USA can see the biggest common denominator in all these US shootings and point it out easily.
Those from the USA are trying to find scapegoats like mental issues, and the few who accept that guns might be the issue say it is impossible to control the ownership of guns in the USA while completely ignoring examples from other countries where this worked out just fine. It looks like people think that they will never be in the position of those kids, teachers or their families. I wish you all good luck and hope you will indeed not have to go through what those people had to go one week before Christmas.
29th December 2012, 19:28
Starter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

I think you're considering this in a bit too much depth, personally. My view as to how he got there is rather simpler, I must say.

:up:
29th December 2012, 19:31
Starter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

I find rather distasteful the manner in which a lot of Americans holding your views on guns have suddenly become concerned about the problem of mental illness, given that a lot of them are simultaneously against the increased provision of affordable healthcare to assist in the treatment of this.

Suddenly? Hardly, I've felt that way for a long time.
29th December 2012, 19:31
Jag_Warrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter

There was an interesting article on the front page of the Washington Post today titled 'Fearing proposed curbs, gun enthusiasts stock up'. Included in the article was the mention that the FBI reported a record 16.8 million in background checks for guns this year. It was not mentioned how many were were for existing gun owners and how many for new owners. It can be safely assumed that a large percentage, 50% or more, were for new owners. Add this to the existing ownership of firearms and it illustrates the impossibility of any attempt to recover guns from the population.

I am on board with Jag's point that it would be MUCH more productive to attempt to identify those individuals who are at the highest risk of misusing guns and address the situation from that angle.

Seems rather logical to me. But what do I know... I just get paid by Fortune 500 companies to solve systemic problems with a data driven approach. The "when in danger, when in doubt, run on circles... scream & shout" approach probably is more fun and entertaining. I'm switching employers shortly. Maybe the new outfit will let me run around and be a crazy-@ss bomb thrower. Just holler like a wild man and intimidate people to get my point across. Gotta have lots of name calling too. That's real important. Woo! Yeah, man! Git insane in the membrane! :bounce:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

What sort of statement does this make about the mentality of those stocking up? To me, they're no different to the sort of unhinged idiots who bought in food and created bunkers in preparation for the Millennium Bug.

Again with generalizations and stereotypes. You're better than that, BDunnell. I mean that. I know that you are.

Quote:

I find rather distasteful the manner in which a lot of Americans holding your views on guns have suddenly become concerned about the problem of mental illness, given that a lot of them are simultaneously against the increased provision of affordable healthcare to assist in the treatment of this.

A lot or some... but not all. I have argued for quiet some time that our failure to address mental health conditions is one of our biggest social failings. The system was never great, but it really began going downhill under Reagan back in the 80's and has gotten worse since then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I think we can very safely assume these were in 99% of the cases people who already owned weapons, most probably also illegally most of them.
Why would someone who didn't bother having a weapon until now go out and buy one? Doesn't make any sense.

If one qualifies to buy a firearm from an FFL dealer with a required background check, exactly how could their existing possession of a (any) weapon be considered "illegal"? Only in places where it is required to register a firearm (other than several large cities, that's not that many places) would unregistered ownership of a firearm be considered illegal... or possibly (though not likely) the individual owns some sort of unreported Title II weapon.

As for why someone would buy a firearm now when they didn't have one before, it seems to be a case of people rushing to buy guns now in fear (justified or not) that they may not be able to do so later. One of the biggest demographics in the U.S. now purchasing firearms is women under the age of 45. Why? I don't know. Grab one (not literally!) and ask her. But everyone who now owns a gun had to at some point buy (or be given) their first one.
29th December 2012, 19:32
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Won't give you that satisfaction kid.

Said mr. perfection. LOL

ioan, I must say, this is immature compared with the comments of the person to whom you were replying.
29th December 2012, 19:33
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter

Suddenly? Hardly, I've felt that way for a long time.

That's why I referred to people 'holding your views', rather than you personally, as I wasn't sure what your own view on the matter was.
29th December 2012, 19:33
Jag_Warrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Won't give you that satisfaction kid.

I see that I've taught you well.

Quote:

Said mr. perfection. LOL

And don't you forget it. :)

Jokes aside, there's no problem with disagreeing with one another. But we can do better than acting like we're in a schoolyard.
29th December 2012, 19:33
Starter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I think we can very safely assume these were in 99% of the cases people who already owned weapons, most probably also illegally most of them.
Why would someone who didn't bother having a weapon until now go out and buy one? Doesn't make any sense.

Read the article and the quotes from people interviewed at the show.
29th December 2012, 19:38
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Again with generalizations and stereotypes. You're better than that, BDunnell. I mean that. I know that you are.

On this, I won't retract what I said. It's what I think. Such behaviour just seems utterly, utterly contrary to any definition of good sense to which I subscribe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

A lot or some... but not all. I have argued for quiet some time that our failure to address mental health conditions is one of our biggest social failings. The system was never great, but it really began going downhill under Reagan back in the 80's and has gotten worse since then.

You don't need to convince me of the sincerity of your view on this point, believe me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Seems rather logical to me. But what do I know... I just get paid by Fortune 500 companies to solve systemic problems with a data driven approach. ...

As for why someone would buy a firearm now when they didn't have one before, it seems to be a case of people rushing to buy guns now in fear (justified or not) that they may not be able to do so later.

Given your (genuine, I know) desire to adopt a data-driven approach, I'm surprised you don't immediately come to the view that such fears are unjustified, as is any practical basis for gun ownership. After all, the risk of being in a situation in which possession of a firearm is worthwhile in a practical sense, not to say proportionate, is very small indeed, is it not?
29th December 2012, 20:02
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Guns cost money, don't they?

The RIGHT to own Guns costs NOTHING.

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