2008 Rally Argentina - official thread

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Originally Posted by L5->R5/CR

No Daniel.

First of all, I didn't say anything about Portugal.

You said: If you want to see people going sideways for fun go to your local rally where unskilled idiots with too much money throw their cars sideways and hope that they get around the corner.

You can twist others words to defend what you believe to be your point but that doesn't change matters.

You made a broad and condescending, if not insulting, comment. Additionally, you didn't do it in spoken word, where one's intent can be communicated in a broader sense; you did it in the written word, where your audience can only take you for exactly what you have written. If you cannot understand the difference in that then I have no further words for you.

Obviously, as you have elaborated as this discussion has dragged on, you meant more than your initial comment would reflect. Where is the harm in simply saying "I should have been more direct or specific". Or simply stating, "you know, I didn't make my point clearly". Like it or not, what you communicate, is not a product of your intent or attempt, but what your audience understands and perceives. No matter how diligently you defend "what" you said, it only matters what your audience "heard".

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Seriously. You people don't quite get it.

You know what. If you walked down the road here you're probably hear birds tweeting. Does that mean that's the only sound you'll hear? NO of course it bloody well doesn't. I don't need to explicitly freaking state that in addition to the people that just want to go sideways at rallies there are 10 that are very skilled, 2 that have wooden legs, 1 that has a hook for a hand. It goes without saying that at all events there are some very skilled people and some not so skilled people. IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING. GET IT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!? As in I don't need to explicitly state that in addition to the people who are unskilled there are a lot of drivers who are very skilled and could probably go a lot further given sponsorship/money.

For the record and for the last frigging time.......

There are things called club rallies. Where you simply need a car which is prepared to the relevant standards set out in the series regulations or by the MSA or FIA or whoever is in charge of that sort of thing in the country. Then you need yourself and your co-driver who both need relevant licences to rally and also you need clothing and so on. What this means is that pretty much anyone can rally at a club level. You could be Sebastien Loeb or Robert Mugabe and the organisers probably wouldn't care. You pays your entry fee and you does your rallying. Your goal could be to go as fast as possible, not die or to go as sideways as possible. Many if not all world champions have competed at a club level so OBVIOUSLY (in fact one could say it GOES WITHOUT SAYING :rolleyes: ) there are some VERY skilled people who compete at this level. Of course there are some less skilled people also.

Is that explicit enough for you? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ozrevhead

Everyone's entitled to opinion - whether you agree with it is up to you. No one should have to apologise if they dont feel they have to.

Personally I dont agree with what Daniel is saying but I will sure as hell defend his right to say it

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Fair enough and I respect your right to not agree with me and the fact that you don't seem to feel somehow obliged to have a pitched battle over what you think I said :up:

You're the only person here who has any common sense and I include myself in that statement just so everyone is clear on that ;)

I think its a bit unfair to call all the local event drivers talentless idiots...i mean you have to start from somewhere...even Loeb was a local driver a few years back...

On the other hand there are many who fall into the category of the sick dog (far more elegant term don;t you think?) and run local village events....the problem, the uglyness and the beuty of rallying is that everyone with money can do it....throw a few money out of the window and you can brag you are a rally competitor, that you love the sport and this and that....and you also demand respect just for throwing some money away.....well i might dissapoint you but you are no rally competitor....you are a sick dog without an owner....if you want respect you earn it by doing far better things than spent euros. Don;t get me wrong you don;t have to be a champion to be considered a rally driver but at least you have to show you can be competitive in the equipment you are in.

Now on the boring Loeb thing.... !!!!! GO WATCH DRIFT RACING !!!!!! leave rallying alone of your presence...... I do also enjoy when a driver goes sideways because the situation demands it...that shows skill...drifting just for the drift is not what rallying is all about.

both the above sentences do not refer to anyone personally...they are just general commants.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

...they are just general commants.

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Jamaican accent rules don;t you think ???

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

Jamaican accent rules don;t you think ???

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You know ... it exists also an "edit" button :p

The sad thing of all this is that we have finally understood every driver until 2002 or so was a totally unskilled sideways one :\
50+ years of rally trashed ... I must go see all Fast and Furious films now, damn. Will I survive.

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Originally Posted by Helstar

You know ... it exists also an "edit" button :p

The sad thing of all this is that we have finally understood every driver until 2002 or so was a totally unskilled sideways one :\
50+ years of rally trashed ... I must go see all Fast and Furious films now, damn. Will I survive.

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every driver was sideways before 2002 ?????? you learn something new every day......

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

Now on the boring Loeb thing.... !!!!! GO WATCH DRIFT RACING !!!!!! leave rallying alone of your presence...... I do also enjoy when a driver goes sideways because the situation demands it...that shows skill...drifting just for the drift is not what rallying is all about

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Exactly my view also :)

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Originally Posted by Helstar

You know ... it exists also an "edit" button :p

The sad thing of all this is that we have finally understood every driver until 2002 or so was a totally unskilled sideways one :\
50+ years of rally trashed ... I must go see all Fast and Furious films now, damn.

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Oh come on Helstar :) It's simply because of the fact that the cars don't reward sideways driving. I agree very much with you that it would be nice to see more sideways driving in the WRC but until the cars change we're not going to see that and I will simply appreciate the skill that goes into Loeb driving faster than everyone else.

If I had my choice I'd go back in time to the 80's and experience Group A a bit more and have more memories. I only ever got to see the group A glory days on one rally and I feel like I lost out big time. I just remember the cars being so sideways and so fast. I'd take that over todays rallying in a flash

Not sure where this whole one eyed fan thing comes from. I saw Loeb back in 2002 on Rally Oz and thought that he would be a great driver in the future even though he'd not done much in a WRCar up until then and the Xsara was very new to gravel. I backed a winner, I was lucky. I also thought Duval would be a great driver in the future and now look where he is :mark: Sometimes you back a winner and sometimes you back a loser.

If you want to see sideways action, go to a drifting event!
If you want to see the fastest driver, go to a rally.

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Originally Posted by N

If you want to see sideways action, go to a drifting event!
If you want to see the fastest driver, go to a rally.

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And don't forget to have some tyres experts with you so they can cut them if needed http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...ons/icon14.gif

Ps. Your last post is good Daniel, but I was obviously ironic. I know the problem is mainly the WRC cars. Look at what Gigi has became. Almost 100% less sideway (he must do the "job" now...).