Mobile phones & tablets thread

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Originally Posted by henners88

Fair enough, I won't open your link at fear of wasting any more of my valuable time.

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Shucks, those 5 seconds were a complete waste of time, innit?

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Originally Posted by henners88

It appears you are the victim of your opening line too. Others can't take it but you couldn't be bothered to read my post because presumably you couldn't take it either lol?

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Eh? You didn't get it. I was talking about the sarcastic and backhanded digs you and airpasser were taking at anybody who dares to question the absolutely correct and fair pricing of Crapple, but when the glove is on the other hand, it's not so peachy anymore and sense of humor goes out the window. I wasn't talking about the essaytastic repetitive carbon copies of the same old argument that has been done to death in this thread.

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Originally Posted by henners88

At least I go on my break with a smile on my face. :D

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Good for you, even more so because you felt the need to share that with everyone! Here I was sitting thinking you were punching a hole in your neighbor's wall. :p ;)

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Originally Posted by henners88

I knew Apple were not going to be silly with their pricing:

Cheap iPhone won't actually be that cheap, says purported manufacturer | News | TechRadar

:)

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Well, of course! It would be silly not to make money off of cheap plastic, D'oh!

The fact that they are even considering a cheaper iPhone means that several consumer voices and constant annoyance with their pricing by several review websites has finally reached Cupertino, and the company is responding. It would be bad business not to, as not everyone is interested in a £500 smartphone.

He's back!! :D

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Eh? You didn't get it. I was talking about the sarcastic and backhanded digs you and airpasser were taking at anybody who dares to question the absolutely correct and fair pricing of Crapple, but when the glove is on the other hand, it's not so peachy anymore and sense of humor goes out the window. I wasn't talking about the essaytastic repetitive carbon copies of the same old argument that has been done to death in this thread.

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To be honest I don't get the impression from you that its ever done in good humour or in jest. Myself and 'airshifter' are owners of both Android and iOS devices so we tend to give our opinions on the more positive sides to things rather than having an obvious dislike for a brand. You also had a dig at airshifter with a rather unnecessary name for him above which I think was a little out of order considering he's been very civil in getting his point across. At fear of accusing you of being ironic with your above comments I have to say it appears to be you that can't really take the criticisms and get more wound up by my replies than I do of yours. My defence of Apple's pricing has not changed and apologies but suggesting I come up with a new argument is pointless when I believe my previous (now lost) responses in this thread still hold the same weight now as the day I made them originally. You haven't changed your mind on this particular matter yet you expect me to come up with a new kind of response? I don't think so sonny Jim lol. If that is the topic under discussion, then that is what it is. :s mokin:

Have a good weekend everyone, finished work and off to decorate. :)

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Originally Posted by henners88

To be honest I don't get the impression from you that its ever done in good humour or in jest. Myself and 'airshifter' are owners of both Android and iOS devices so we tend to give our opinions on the more positive sides to things rather than having an obvious dislike for a brand. You also had a dig at airshifter with a rather unnecessary name for him above which I think was a little out of order considering he's been very civil in getting his point across. At fear of accusing you of being ironic with your above comments I have to say it appears to be you that can't really take the criticisms and get more wound up by my replies than I do of yours. My defence of Apple's pricing has not changed and apologies but suggesting I come up with a new argument is pointless when I believe my previous (now lost) responses in this thread still hold the same weight now as the day I made them originally. You haven't changed your mind on this particular matter yet you expect me to come up with a new kind of response? I don't think so sonny Jim lol. If that is the topic under discussion, then that is what it is. :s mokin:

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Do lighten up henners. The only one getting wounded up here is you with your two page essay earlier. The thing is that the landscape has changed, devices have changed, OS' have changed, Apple are no longer the leaders, and with their declining sales, budget iPhone offering and lowering prices of the iPhone 5, it's proof enough that they have paid heed to their criticisms. Yet your posts are exact carbon copies of the ones from one year ago with the same rhetoric defending Apple's pricing, when they themselves have lowered it in response to market pressure. Get along with the times grandpa. :p :p

And yeah, I agree, it's better to kill this topic with fire as it will only go in circles again, if past history is anything to go by. It's only electronic devices after all and none of us are getting paid by Apple, Android, Microsoft or Nokia to waste our precious Friday time on the forum.

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Originally Posted by henners88

They need to produce a fair amount of low end stuff for it make any impact on its higher end products.

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Is it possible to make a cheaper iPhone?
I guess they will just change the name and the price, the handset is cheapo anyway.

And to continue the circle of the conversation, it comes back to the basic premise:
Are you happy with your phone?
I sure am.
I transitioned from BB to iPhone a while back
and I don't plan any changes on something that works very well for me and my family,
and yes, and with a cost that I am willing to pay.

Cheers to the tech-geeks and entrepreneurs out there that are in the forefront of technology and are giving us the possibility
of owning and using the cell phones we choose to buy.

I salute you!


It's Friday, okay?

It's a good point. I have a 4S who's basic design is 3 years old. But I'm still happy with it and typing this post on it. I've yet to see another phone which would justify taking out a new contract.

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

It's Friday, okay?

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Freedom Friday :cool:

Sounds cool

My Ativ S has been playing funny buggers of late. At the moment it's not charging properly, not connecting to my PC and every once in a while it does a reset. Wasn't too bothered about the reset tbh, but not charging properly was getting annoying. Took it to Phones 4 U and the guy said started apologising for not being able to just replace it on the spot because I'd bought it over the phone. I wasn't bothered tbh, I popped the sim in my Lumia 800 and moved on with my life :) It did make me wonder what sort of customers they deal with normally though, they must get "but what am I go to do!?!?!?!?!?!" quite a lot. He apologised a few times and I was almost tempted to say "Did I complain? Did I ask for a replacement? No! Shut the **** up and book my phone in and send it off to get repaired!"

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Originally Posted by Daniel

It did make me wonder what sort of customers they deal with normally though...

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I used to manage stores for one of their rivals, and the short answer is "a-holes".

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they must get "but what am I go to do!?!?!?!?!?!" quite a lot. He apologised a few times and I was almost tempted to say "Did I complain? Did I ask for a replacement? No! Shut the **** up and book my phone in and send it off to get repaired!"

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Quite. The worst customers are the "I know my rights" brigade, who invariably don't, but once saw an episode of Watchdog. Or the "I'll take you to court" threats which immediately require me to only deal with them in writing and therefore guarantee they won't be helped instore.

Obviously 99% of customers in any given day were perfectly fine, but even now it's the 1% of morons who stick in the memory. :s

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Quite. The worst customers are the "I know my rights" brigade, who invariably don't, but once saw an episode of Watchdog. Or the "I'll take you to court" threats which immediately require me to only deal with them in writing and therefore guarantee they won't be helped instore.

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yeah, reminds me of a forum I post on, something small goes wrong with a car and people are talking about rejecting the car..... Whoa whoa whoa! Step back for a moment here! You've had a small problem with a car which could be sorted in a day or two and you're wanting to reject it why?

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

And to continue the circle of the conversation, it comes back to the basic premise:
Are you happy with your phone?
I sure am.
I transitioned from BB to iPhone a while back
and I don't plan any changes on something that works very well for me and my family,
and yes, and with a cost that I am willing to pay.

Cheers to the tech-geeks and entrepreneurs out there that are in the forefront of technology and are giving us the possibility
of owning and using the cell phones we choose to buy.

I salute you!


It's Friday, okay?

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This aspect is what amazes me about the phone debate. People act as if EVERYONE should want the same phone and OS, regardless of which their choice is. We have countless other products that the tech, options, opinions, uses, etc are wildly varied, but none of those provoke the wars that phones do.

We own both products and I find both a very good value, just for differing reasons. And really all the haters and/or fanbois in the world won't likely change the decision on the next purchase. :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

My Ativ S has been playing funny buggers of late. At the moment it's not charging properly, not connecting to my PC and every once in a while it does a reset. Wasn't too bothered about the reset tbh, but not charging properly was getting annoying. Took it to Phones 4 U and the guy said started apologising for not being able to just replace it on the spot because I'd bought it over the phone. I wasn't bothered tbh, I popped the sim in my Lumia 800 and moved on with my life :) It did make me wonder what sort of customers they deal with normally though, they must get "but what am I go to do!?!?!?!?!?!" quite a lot. He apologised a few times and I was almost tempted to say "Did I complain? Did I ask for a replacement? No! Shut the **** up and book my phone in and send it off to get repaired!"

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Tsk tsk, Daniel. This wouldn't have happened if you had only bought an Apple. They would have replaced your device with the latest one, added in a hot fudge sundae and thrown in a foot massage for good measure.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

This aspect is what amazes me about the phone debate. People act as if EVERYONE should want the same phone and OS, regardless of which their choice is. We have countless other products that the tech, options, opinions, uses, etc are wildly varied, but none of those provoke the wars that phones do.

We own both products and I find both a very good value, just for differing reasons. And really all the haters and/or fanbois in the world won't likely change the decision on the next purchase. :)

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Then don't bother with this thread. Simply block people or stay away. OR better yet, make a new thread where only positive comments are allowed.

What really grinds my gears is folks swearing they don't have allegiances towards one specific brand, but then spend insane amounts of time on the forum defending that very brand. Or in fact get touchy at the slightest mention of their device. Then there are backhanded sarcastic jibes, for no good reason out of the blue, at people who prefer the rival brand or who quote benchmark scores. My reply to Daniel above is not quite in the same vein, but is a similar example. If you don't care either way, don't bother with such threads. If you do care, then stick to it and own up. Decide.

Then there are those with the annoying meathead bully jock mentality, where simply being ignorant about tech details is supposed to be cooler :confused: and anybody who knows more than you is branded a geek/nerd/fanboi.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Do lighten up henners. The only one getting wounded up here is you with your two page essay earlier.

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You see this is why its silly to refuse to read another persons post and then make a statement like this ^^. My post was long, perhaps too long but there was nothing in it that suggests I was wound up or frustrated. I repeat some of my previous opinions and back them up with examples, discussing how I think Apple are moving forward in regards to iOS 7. I discuss how I feel Apple are coping in today's market with how they may fair in the coming months and share my recent experience using the Samsung Galaxy S4, to which I was highly impressed. I also discussed how far I think Android has improved as an OS since I last used it. Positive stuff, no disdain or frustration because the brand of my phone is under scrutiny.

All of this you would have realised had you bothered to take 3 or 4 minutes to read what I wrote. Its all there in black and white. Its very disappointing and a waste of my time adding to this if the flow of discussion is dictated by several individuals intent on only one aim. I think all the accusations of iPhone owners taking um bridge here and affecting the thread has been settled in the last few posts as the content is bordering on juvenile IMO.

My interpretation of this thread is to discuss mobile phones and tablets, with the aim to discuss technology, new releases and opinions from our own experiences. The mobile market is not exactly running short of subject matter to discuss in terms of innovation at the moment with many new things coming in. I'm not interested in brand wars or watching others mock choices because they feel its light hearted amusement in their own selfish way. I don't see why myself and airshifter should be bullied off a thread and instructed not to post on it because others want to use it purely to mock Apple and their marketing and patent ethics. Lets share our experiences and discuss what we like and want to see coming to our mobile devices. If it really is a point of no return and we gentlemen really can't have a little respect for each other, then the thread really has run its course. Sad when you consider this topic is something that doesn't come to an end as technology develops by the day. A thread like this can be interesting and useful, for example when Mark asked about a simple to use phone for his mother.

I've tried to suggest this before, but can we try and get this thread onto a flow of a more positive nature and try and put brand prejudices aside? Come on guys and gals there's no point getting frustrated over a mobile device is there? :)

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Then don't bother with this thread. Simply block people or stay away. OR better yet, make a new thread where only positive comments are allowed.

What really grinds my gears is folks swearing they don't have allegiances towards one specific brand, but then spend insane amounts of time on the forum defending that very brand. Or in fact get touchy at the slightest mention of their device. Then there are backhanded sarcastic jibes, for no good reason out of the blue, at people who prefer the rival brand or who quote benchmark scores. My reply to Daniel above is not quite in the same vein, but is a similar example. If you don't care either way, don't bother with such threads. If you do care, then stick to it and own up. Decide.

Then there are those with the annoying meathead bully jock mentality, where simply being ignorant about tech details is supposed to be cooler :confused: and anybody who knows more than you is branded a geek/nerd/fanboi.

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Rather comical and juvenile all in the same post. If we were loyal to one type over the other, we certainly wouldn't have both Apple and Android products in our home. My point is simply that both have strong and weak points, and those points may well be the primary driving issues with those that choose one over the other on a loyal basis.

I know that this thread originally started with the intent of hating Apple products and that some seem intent on making that the threads primary goal, but others actually have input on either and/or both types without bias. :)

As for this:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Then there are those with the annoying meathead bully jock mentality, where simply being ignorant about tech details is supposed to be cooler :confused: and anybody who knows more than you is branded a geek/nerd/fanboi.

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Since I have to assume that is directed at me, I'll invite you to view the post counts of you and me on this thread. Being you have over 6 times as many posts as I do, and being that the vast majority oppose Apple products in any form, who is the one playing bully here? I'll openly admit I don't dig much into tech details regarding phones for the simple reason that I don't care. I won't ever build my own phone and as such any phone capable enough for my needs fits the bill for me regardless of whether it uses a genie in a bottle or an 8 core processor. My comments concerning "fanbois" has nothing to do with tech, but the numbers of obvious brand biased people, many who have never used both types of phones long enough to really give them a fair review IMO.

Now I could reduce myself to altering peoples screen names, digging at one brand phone, or applying shallow stereotypes to any that oppose my view. But my response to Race's post was to echo his sentiment.... if the end user is happy, why should anyone else get their blood pressure up over it?

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Originally Posted by airshifter

Rather comical and juvenile all in the same post. If we were loyal to one type over the other, we certainly wouldn't have both Apple and Android products in our home. My point is simply that both have strong and weak points, and those points may well be the primary driving issues with those that choose one over the other on a loyal basis.

I know that this thread originally started with the intent of hating Apple products and that some seem intent on making that the threads primary goal, but others actually have input on either and/or both types without bias. :)

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I have never really seen you saying anything positive about Android or WP or anything else over Apple. So, you claiming to be unbiased doesn't really make sense, as there's an obvious bias towards Apple. Same goes for henners. You both may say nice tidbits here and there, but your number one preferred brand is still Apple. At least I admit that I am biased.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

Since I have to assume that is directed at me, I'll invite you to view the post counts of you and me on this thread. Being you have over 6 times as many posts as I do, and being that the vast majority oppose Apple products in any form, who is the one playing bully here? I'll openly admit I don't dig much into tech details regarding phones for the simple reason that I don't care. I won't ever build my own phone and as such any phone capable enough for my needs fits the bill for me regardless of whether it uses a genie in a bottle or an 8 core processor. My comments concerning "fanbois" has nothing to do with tech, but the numbers of obvious brand biased people, many who have never used both types of phones long enough to really give them a fair review IMO.

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I never forced anybody not to buy an Apple device or directly mocked their device either, even if others in this thread may have done so. My bone to pick has always been with Apple's pricing, and judging by the company's price reduction of their flagship model and budget iPhone offering recently, it has been a very legitimate complaint that thousands -- no wait, millions of other people have made, and the bigwigs at Cupertino have responded. So, I don't see what the big problem is?

Also, nice form to assume that people haven't used both devices. I used an iPhone 4s for a month before I went ahead and bought the Galaxy S3.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

Now I could reduce myself to altering peoples screen names, digging at one brand phone, or applying shallow stereotypes to any that oppose my view.

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Yes, but using backhanded cheap shots at people who quote benchmark scores and implying they're nerds is perfectly fine and very mature and unbiased at the same time. Come on.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

But my response to Race's post was to echo his sentiment.... if the end user is happy, why should anyone else get their blood pressure up over it?

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Then why does the happy end user care two flips about whatever some blood raging benchmark quoting geek has to say about their device?

This is quite a phenomenon. Person A says they're happy with their device and nobody's opinion is gonna make them change their mind. This person then knowingly gets in a debate about their preferred brand, gets upset at the slightest criticism of Apple, defends it hammers and tongs against benchmark scores until kingdom come, calls anybody who knows what processor is in their device, a "nerd" or a "geek". Then when the topic is no longer discussed, takes sarcastic cheap shots at people they may have argued this with before. And when they have to taste the same medicine, panties start flying about, words like fanboi are thrown around and we are in the same vicious cycle again.

iPhone sales projections are now so low it

Cheap iPhone release date, news and rumours | News | TechRadar

Apple decreasing the iPhone 5's price, and are soon to launch a budget iPhone.

I would consider this a victory for folks around the world who have been wasting their times on online forums, criticizing this aspect of the company over the past year. Very similar to how Microsoft has reacted rather quickly to the criticisms of the Xbox One.

This proves consumer feedback is still ultra important, and if you complain about something long enough, it will eventually change. ;)

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I have never really seen you saying anything positive about Android or WP or anything else over Apple. So, you claiming to be unbiased doesn't really make sense, as there's an obvious bias towards Apple. Same goes for henners. You both may say nice tidbits here and there, but your number one preferred brand is still Apple. At least I admit that I am biased.

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If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple! :laugh:


As for the rest of the post, not worth the waste of time other than to mention I really don't care what you buy, nor do I care if you want to spend 500 post trying to convince others that they should buy the same. But the fact is that anyone that wants can express an opinion, and that includes people that prefer the Apple products.

I'm short on time... we are going to stop some Android carrying kids in the neighborhood and bully them into buying iPhones. All those nerds and geeks do it sit around running benchmarks and talking tech garbage. We are going to force them into an OS that works! :)

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Originally Posted by airshifter

If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple! :laugh:

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I have been accused here of being biased towards Apple for at least 2 years that I can remember. Long before I even owned an Apple product! Just because I liked the way iOS is laid out and the functionality I found was easier to use. I was positive about certain aspects of the iPhone and that was enough to label me. I loved the 'HTC Incredible S' (and the other 3 android handsets before that) I owned but ironically I was never labelled as an Android Fan simply because I shared similar opinions. For you Airshifter its more comical as you've admitted many times to not owning an iPhone, but because you are not using this thread to bash it, you get the label too. Perhaps we are older or something? That's my guess. Its all too easy to try and turn a discussion into sides.

I'm in the position now where I own an iPhone and use iOS daily and have done since October last year, so can address criticisms made here that I either don't agree with or perhaps agree with. For my needs it works and well. I didn't have a problem with the pricing of the iPhone because here in the UK the price was the same as the latest Samsung flagship phone of the time. I don't know how its priced elsewhere in the world but here the iPhone is in line. When I was ready to upgrade I very nearly bought the S3 as was discussed earlier in this thread. They were the same price on upgrade. I waited for the iPhone 5 to be released so I could judge them side by side and I chose the iPhone on two things. I preferred the interface of the OS for its simplicity and I preferred the handset because it was smaller than the Samsung. Two of my major needs addressed. My needs may well change in October 2014 when I am able to upgrade and perhaps by then I will be labelled as an Android fan instead. You have to love the internet. I'm not brand loyal in any sense of the word. If I like something I buy it regardless of what is written on it and generally if I can afford it. Same with anything.

Another amusing fact from this thread I wish to bring up. In the last 4 months I have recommended the Sony Xperia Z, Samsung S3 and S4 to people I know who have asked my advice on new phones. Of course I've mentioned the iPhone as a consideration but having discussed these peoples needs in a more mature level than could ever be had on this thread, it was clear their needs were very different to mine. Not everybody chooses to own the same phone and life would be pretty boring if they did. We can only share our opinions and experiences and make recommendations based on that. If I were biased, I wouldn't be in the business of doing such things and to be honest I think I have been pretty open here without resorting to bashing devices I have not used for any period of time. I don't feel I should be forced to pick sides just because a few guys on a forum feel its easier to do. I can't see the point in limiting my future purchases by slating a company who really doesn't have any impact on my life as a whole. Its counter-productive IMO. Anyway I'll join you here airshifter by having a bit of a laugh about all this and move on. Cheers :beer:

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Originally Posted by airshifter

If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple!

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Originally Posted by airshifter

We are going to force them into an OS that works!

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No, no, not biased at all!

And carrying a device doesn't automatically make you unbiased. There have been a lot of negative things said about Apple, Android and WP in this thread. Where have you defended the other two? But Apple, Apple is a different story.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

As for the rest of the post, not worth the waste of time other than to mention I really don't care what you buy, nor do I care if you want to spend 500 post trying to convince others that they should buy the same. But the fact is that anyone that wants can express an opinion, and that includes people that prefer the Apple products.

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I could repeat it a thousand times, but if you're really that slow, then you're not going to get it. My problem has always been Apple's pricing. Never even told anybody not to express their opinions. In fact whenever someone posted that they bought an iPhone in this thread, I have never mocked their choice or device. Others have done so. I either congratulated or stayed away. And you can quote me on this.

The bone to pick always had been with company's exorbitant prices, not the consumer. The consumer can buy whatever they like. You lot have been trying to justify those prices saying Apple is a "luxury" brand for the last two years. :laugh: This is no longer true. Apple has had to bow to market pressure, because guess what, the consumer has finally decided with their wallets. And not just millions of consumers, but phone review websites have long been criticizing Apple's pricing. The result? 1. Budget iPhone offering. 2. What was once a $200 difference on Amazon between the two major flagship devices from Apple and Samsung, is now only $50. And if the trend continues, I expect it to go even lower.

You can go back a page and see which posts actually led us here. And if you don't wanna read "negative" opinions on a brand you love? Exercise your right to freedom and add me to your ignore list. Much smoother day for you I promise! :)

Apple's rumoured budget iPhone is still going to be a £400 device if you believe TechRadars prediction. They are making it more affordable, but its not going to be Nexus 4 level pricing. I think Apple are still maintaining their price range whilst satisfying an element of the market. The spy shots of the iPhone 5S show it looks very similar to the iPhone 5 and will bring an incremental update regarding internal hardware and my guess is this will be their next release. I've intrigued by the suggestions Apple have been forced down this route because of 'consumers have decided with their wallets'. Apple and Samsung's stock dipped last month due to a slow down in sales, but surely that is the market as a whole rather than one brand? Both companies have seen a rise in demand, just not the same peak they experienced in the first quarter. The phone market always goes through periods like this because people are keeping phones for longer these days on 24 month contracts.

Apple unlike their competitors release less hardware, so deal with demand over the course of a 10 month period approx. Samsung have released several models this year alone, therefore comparing the two flagship models is difficult. I don't think either company is struggling in terms of sales to be honest. I think Apple has undergone a management restructure and perhaps their philosophies have changed in terms of how they approach the market. You can't stick to the same business model forever. There is no shame in reaching out to consumers and offering a little more, and after all Apple are still the most profitable company coming out of all this. All very positive for the big players.

I hope the techradar rumors aren't true, because after all it is going to be a watered down version of the flagship iPhone, and £400 is just too much for that IMHO. That won't be clever strategy by Apple, firstly because the device will already have words like "budget" and "cheaper" associated with it. It won't have quite the same charm as the iPhone 5. Second, I read it is made out of polycarbonate and not aluminum. Competitors will surely offer devices with much better value for money in the same price range.

As for the iPhone's price drop, it is now priced much closer to other flagships, which is fine by me. And yes, I think it is because consumers have spoken with their wallets. The sale of Android flagships has shot up quite considerably. At least 10 people I know personally have switched from Apple to Android, which is quite huge IMO, and that I think is because HTC, Samsung and Sony have done a good job this past year of "blinging" up the ads and dangling a nice carrot in front of them with all kinds of flashy features. Besides the HTC One, Galaxy S4 and Xperia Z are very potent devices.

For your third paragraph henners, I quite like Apple's new business model of listening and responding to the consumer and the market more. Fact is some consumers don't buy phones on contracts. And if an iPhone 5 is in the same price range that I'm looking at, truth be told, it suddenly goes high up in the list and becomes a very viable option! Apple had to slash prices sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I hope the techradar rumors aren't true, because after all it is going to be a watered down version of the flagship iPhone, and £400 is just too much for that IMHO. That won't be clever strategy by Apple, firstly because the device will already have words like "budget" and "cheaper" associated with it. It won't have quite the same charm as the iPhone 5. Second, I read it is made out of polycarbonate and not aluminum. Competitors will surely offer devices with much better value for money in the same price range.

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The thing is, Apple have at no point even hinted or suggested that a 'budget' iPhone is in the pipeline. A Taiwanese manufacturer claimed to be making it and may well have compromised their non disclosure agreement by talking about it, but that is the only evidence that such a device exists. I highly doubt Apple are going to introduce a new product by using the terminology 'budget or Cheap' either. If consumers are developing that perception right now, the marketing Apple use will surely over ride it like many of the rumours we see pre release. I've also seen rumours that the pricing could be as little as $99. If that is the case, then it'll be a very cut down model indeed and something I don't think much of the market will be looking for. It'll suit teenagers and those on a strict budget, or perhaps older people who want simplicity without the cost. Who knows? But right now its a rumour with no hints from Apple whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

At least 10 people I know personally have switched from Apple to Android, which is quite huge IMO, and that I think is because HTC, Samsung and Sony have done a good job this past year of "blinging" up the ads and dangling a nice carrot in front of them with all kinds of flashy features. Besides the HTC One, Galaxy S4 and Xperia Z are very potent devices.

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I don't doubt the manufacturers you mention have done an excellent job with their offerings. The mobile market is strong right now, but none of them can continue the innovation race like we have seen over the past 18 months forever. I know this works with any form of product design. The demand can be maintained and I fear Samsung are in danger of diluting their Galaxy brand by releasing too many models under that name. I feel they should keep flagship branding separate from their more budget offerings. Just my opinion but this may have been one of the reasons why the S4 was less successful in comparison to its predecessor.

Your point about friend of yours moving from iPhone to Android is always going to be subjective. I know a couple of people who have dumped their iPhones in favour of other platforms, but also know a fair few people who have come the opposite way. Most people I know aren't into gadgets and devices like we see discussed here. they have whatever they are offered or they feel is cool at the time. I know people who say they have always fancied an iPhone and upgraded to one without really going into the details, something I would never contemplate doing. Our entire sales division were on Blackberry until December last year and now they all have iPhones and iPads. My wife's company have come the same way because the iPhone is cheaper on a business rate and they have the advantage of being able to monitor and lock certain aspects. I don't feel either of our experiences tell a true story of the way the market is going because its a lot vaster than our immediate group of friends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

For your third paragraph henners, I quite like Apple's new business model of listening and responding to the consumer and the market more. Fact is some consumers don't buy phones on contracts. And if an iPhone 5 is in the same price range that I'm looking at, truth be told, it suddenly goes high up in the list and becomes a very viable option! Apple had to slash prices sooner or later.

---

Some consumers undoubtedly buy their devices outright. I don't know anybody personally who has done that for a while due to how much phones cost these days. Its cheaper to get them on contract and retailers in the UK would rather you didn't buy a sim free handset for some reason. I certainly couldn't justify paying a lump sum of £600 for a phone when I could spread the cost over two years and not really miss the expense. The Nexus 4 was raved about on the internet but you try buying one of those in the UK or even spotting an advert for it. I still think consumers buying handsets outright are in the minority. I feel its consumers who wish to change their device more often than those on contract would rather pay out and sell it on, but many I think stick with what they have longer. I know I do. The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months. I had to check that after you said the price had been slashed as I was expecting it to be closer to half price or something.

People also said there's no way they'd ever make a cut price iPad Mini either - and yet I have one.

The 'cut price' iPhone will be a good thing IMO, Apple can no longer rely on the premium market as the competition there is fierce, better to use the guts of an iPhone 4 to make an iPhone model which everyone can own.

My wife is looking to upgrade her 3GS, I've suggested she wait until the Apple announcement in the Autumn to see if this cut price iPhone comes along.

Quote:

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The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months

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That's the same price as it's always been.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

The thing is, Apple have at no point even hinted or suggested that a 'budget' iPhone is in the pipeline. A Taiwanese manufacturer claimed to be making it and may well have compromised their non disclosure agreement by talking about it, but that is the only evidence that such a device exists. I highly doubt Apple are going to introduce a new product by using the terminology 'budget or Cheap' either. If consumers are developing that perception right now, the marketing Apple use will surely over ride it like many of the rumours we see pre release. I've also seen rumours that the pricing could be as little as $99. If that is the case, then it'll be a very cut down model indeed and something I don't think much of the market will be looking for. It'll suit teenagers and those on a strict budget, or perhaps older people who want simplicity without the cost. Who knows? But right now its a rumour with no hints from Apple whatsoever.

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Of course Apple wouldn't call it a budget or a cheap iPhone. :p I'm sure their marketing department will come up with something clever enough to appeal to the common man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I don't doubt the manufacturers you mention have done an excellent job with their offerings. The mobile market is strong right now, but none of them can continue the innovation race like we have seen over the past 18 months forever. I know this works with any form of product design. The demand can be maintained and I fear Samsung are in danger of diluting their Galaxy brand by releasing too many models under that name. I feel they should keep flagship branding separate from their more budget offerings. Just my opinion but this may have been one of the reasons why the S4 was less successful in comparison to its predecessor.

---

I agree about the recent slew of devices from Samsung. There's too much clutter, yes, and I personally don't agree with it, but another way of looking at it is also that they are putting devices out there probably to suit every need, just because they can. And the fact that they're still finding buyers means there is a market out there. IMO though there should have been only two variants of the S4, the normal one and the rugged, waterproof one. Adding the mini and then the Galaxy camera is sort of overkill, but surprisingly they have tapped into a subset of consumers that desire those!

I mean who the heck wants to buy the new 6.4 inch Xperia Z?? Not me! But I have already heard people considering it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

Your point about friend of yours moving from iPhone to Android is always going to be subjective. I know a couple of people who have dumped their iPhones in favour of other platforms, but also know a fair few people who have come the opposite way. Most people I know aren't into gadgets and devices like we see discussed here. they have whatever they are offered or they feel is cool at the time. I know people who say they have always fancied an iPhone and upgraded to one without really going into the details, something I would never contemplate doing. Our entire sales division were on Blackberry until December last year and now they all have iPhones and iPads. My wife's company have come the same way because the iPhone is cheaper on a business rate and they have the advantage of being able to monitor and lock certain aspects. I don't feel either of our experiences tell a true story of the way the market is going because its a lot vaster than our immediate group of friends.

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I am aware of that, as it is quite obvious. I was merely correlating Android's boost in sales directly with my immediate group of acquaintances, because I personally haven't seen such a major and sudden jump in my immediate vicinity, like ever. :D That all happened in the past 6 months. A bunch of attractive contracts, and they just slurped it up. The sucky thing is that me with a Galaxy S3 is the one with the oldest model now. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

Some consumers undoubtedly buy their devices outright. I don't know anybody personally who has done that for a while due to how much phones cost these days. Its cheaper to get them on contract and retailers in the UK would rather you didn't buy a sim free handset for some reason. I certainly couldn't justify paying a lump sum of £600 for a phone when I could spread the cost over two years and not really miss the expense. The Nexus 4 was raved about on the internet but you try buying one of those in the UK or even spotting an advert for it. I still think consumers buying handsets outright are in the minority. I feel its consumers who wish to change their device more often than those on contract would rather pay out and sell it on, but many I think stick with what they have longer. I know I do. The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months. I had to check that after you said the price had been slashed as I was expecting it to be closer to half price or something.

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That's because phone contracts in UK and US are MUCH more attractively priced than anywhere else in the world. In some countries, the phone contracts are absurd, and in others they don't even exist. So, if you want a flagship smartphone, it is cheaper to buy it on a credit card and pay it off in months, just like you would with a contract, and get a much cheaper sim-only contract.

For example, where I am right now, to get an iPhone 5 32 GB, you pay €294 upfront, and €65 per month for two years. :laugh: - https://www.vodafone.ro/shop/telefoa...e-5-32gb-negru (Chrome should translate the page)

And even then you don't get quite the contract you get in the UK - Apple iPhone 5 32GB black - Buy Apple iPhone deals on a Vodafone UK | overview

I believe UK providers some will even give you the handset for free? Of course, contracts in other countries will get better over time, but right now for someone outside the UK and US, it makes sense to buy a sim-free handset. Another big perk is that they are not locked by the network, and if you are someone that wants to tinker around with OS reinstall, especially with Android, it's easier and you're not breaking any law.

The iPhone 5 is only about £40 or £50 pounds extra over the S4 on Amazon, whereas the iPhone 4S was at one point a full £150 more expensive than the Galaxy S3. The gap between the flagships has reduced by over £100, so yes, things have changed for the better, as the market has become exciting and opened up more options for the consumer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark

That's the same price as it's always been.

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Apple have dropped £30 in the UK, and the 16 GB is now available for £500.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone...words=iPhone+5

The price drop may not be major in the UK or US, as they have always been Apple's strongest markets. But they have further dropped prices by £50, and even £80 in some second and third world countries to place it competitively in the same ballpark as its direct flagship competitors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark

That's the same price as it's always been.

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That's what I thought.
iPhone 5 - Buy new iPhone 5 SIM Free or Pay as you go - Apple Store (UK)
I have a feeling this price drop is from selected third party retailers rather than Apple directly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

That's because phone contracts in UK and US are MUCH more attractively priced than anywhere else in the world. In some countries, the phone contracts are absurd, and in others they don't even exist. So, if you want a flagship smartphone, it is cheaper to buy it on a credit card and pay it off in months, just like you would with a contract, and get a much cheaper sim-only contract.

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I have to say Captain this is probably why I haven't been able to see your point for much of this thread. The iPhone is expensive where ever you buy it in comparison to budget models, but its always been within range of competitors flagship models, at least here. I've openly admitted several times I have no idea how the pricing works abroad with regard to the iPhone. I know when I upgraded in October, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was very similar in price to the iPhone 5, hence the confusion when I've seen it stated the iPhone is an extortionate price.

Another beauty about the UK mobile market is the ability to negotiate a contract. I never accept the pricing on a website or what a phone operator offers me. The market is so saturated and they are all desperate for your business. They will bend over backwards to get your custom and you often get money off handset prices and free bolt on's added if you haggle in the right way. I understand abroad in some countries they are very much fixed on what they offer. I know people who approached their carriers when the iPhone 5 came out and managed to get 50 quid knocked off the handset price. It all depends who you speak to and the way in which you do it. When I am due to upgrade and say for example I want to iPhone 6 or 7, whatever it'll be called. If they offer me an upgrade price of £250 for the handset, I'll try my luck and get it for closer to £200. It can be done. At the end of the day these sales advisor's work in call centres and have targets to meet. As long as the sales sheets are balanced between customers they have figures to play around with. the iPhone doesn't have to be a silly price if you buy it in the right way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Apple have dropped £30 in the UK, and the 16 GB is now available for £500.
The price drop may not be major in the UK or US, as they have always been Apple's strongest markets. But they have further dropped prices by £50, and even £80 in some second and third world countries to place it competitively in the same ballpark as its direct flagship competitors.

---

Apple haven't dropped their prices if you buy from them direct on their UK and US stores. The prices haven't dropped on pages like Phones4U, Dialaphone and Carphone Warehouse either when buying on contract. Perhaps the prices have dropped for sim free devices through third party agents, but I have to admit I don't try and keep up with pricing in that sector of the retail market. I didn't even realise Amazon sold the iPhone I have to admit, and am yet to meet anyone who has bought it outright, but agree its obviously feasible for some people. As you said, the iPhone can be had for free if you choose the right contract and are willing to pay a little more a month.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I have to say Captain this is probably why I haven't been able to see your point for much of this thread. The iPhone is expensive where ever you buy it in comparison to budget models, but its always been within range of competitors flagship models, at least here. I've openly admitted several times I have no idea how the pricing works abroad with regard to the iPhone. I know when I upgraded in October, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was very similar in price to the iPhone 5, hence the confusion when I've seen it stated the iPhone is an extortionate price.

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Glad the confusion has lessened somewhat. About a year or so ago, a sim free unlocked iPhone 4S was around £150 more expensive than the Galaxy S3, and hence the outrage by consumers and review websites. If you buy it locked on contract however, you won't see much of a difference. Phone companies also make more money by selling Android flagships at around the same price, as they get them for cheaper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

Another beauty about the UK mobile market is the ability to negotiate a contract. I never accept the pricing on a website or what a phone operator offers me. The market is so saturated and they are all desperate for your business. They will bend over backwards to get your custom and you often get money off handset prices and free bolt on's added if you haggle in the right way. I understand abroad in some countries they are very much fixed on what they offer. I know people who approached their carriers when the iPhone 5 came out and managed to get 50 quid knocked off the handset price. It all depends who you speak to and the way in which you do it. When I am due to upgrade and say for example I want to iPhone 6 or 7, whatever it'll be called. If they offer me an upgrade price of £250 for the handset, I'll try my luck and get it for closer to £200. It can be done. At the end of the day these sales advisor's work in call centres and have targets to meet. As long as the sales sheets are balanced between customers they have figures to play around with. the iPhone doesn't have to be a silly price if you buy it in the right way.

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That is one HUGE advantage. And I know it first hand, because I did a short stint as a TL at tech support for 3 UK a couple of years ago. So, chances are that around 2004 if you were an angry 3 customer and wanted to talk to a supervisor, I would have been telling you to calm the F down over the phone. :p Not proud of that job, but I was in transition and needed some quick cash. Anyway, the girl I was dating at that time used to work in the customer retention department (female with a nice voice, go figure), and together with the sales department they had some CRAZY offers to give, but ONLY if it was difficult to retain an existing customer or acquire a new customer. In fact, with permission from their respective supervisors, they gave some crazy deals to lucky UK customers.

Try doing that in India or Romania, and you will be told to either get the contract at its set price or F*** off.

I still wouldn't touch 3 now even if they have got better. They are due to be the last service provider to get 4G when it becomes standard due to their frequency apparently. My brother has an iPhone on 3 and reckons they are great apart from the network coverage being almost none existent in and around Oxfordshire! Yeah fabulous lol. They are super cheap though and you can get an iPhone on a £25 a month contract with all you can eat data, minutes and texts. The others you pay more for but at least you know you get a signal.

Saying that I pay the same amount on O2 having paid I think £260 for the handset of my iPhone 5. I bought it through topcashback after an agent set up the deal for me online and got £70 cashback after 3 months. I paid £190 for the iPhone which was £10 cheaper than I paid for the Incredible S when that first came out. The HTC was on a stupidly cheap monthly tariff though so both worked out cheaper than advertised. Nobody likes paying more than they have to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I still wouldn't touch 3 now even if they have got better. They are due to be the last service provider to get 4G when it becomes standard due to their frequency apparently. My brother has an iPhone on 3 and reckons they are great apart from the network coverage being almost none existent in and around Oxfordshire! Yeah fabulous lol. They are super cheap though and you can get an iPhone on a £25 a month contract with all you can eat data, minutes and texts. The others you pay more for but at least you know you get a signal.

Saying that I pay the same amount on O2 having paid I think £260 for the handset of my iPhone 5. I bought it through topcashback after an agent set up the deal for me online and got £70 cashback after 3 months. I paid £190 for the iPhone which was £10 cheaper than I paid for the Incredible S when that first came out. The HTC was on a stupidly cheap monthly tariff though so both worked out cheaper than advertised. Nobody likes paying more than they have to.

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My S3 is on the 3 network. I also have a data SIM on 3. At home, according to speedtest.net, I get a faster down/upload speed on 3 than my Sky ADSL! It is also the only reliable data network when I am holiday on the Norfolk Broads and in Smailholm (remote area in Scottish Borders).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

My S3 is on the 3 network. I also have a data SIM on 3. At home, according to speedtest.net, I get a faster down/upload speed on 3 than my Sky ADSL! It is also the only reliable data network when I am holiday on the Norfolk Broads and in Smailholm (remote area in Scottish Borders).

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My brother gets signal in West Wales in places I can't, places that are remote. I tend to get better signal more built up area's which is confusing. I won't knock it further as I don't use it, just mentioning my experience in the past with it. I'd probably sooner go with 3 than Orange. My mate's phone bill has gone up again from £36 p/m to nearly £60! He's had a nightmare getting his money back and it seems they are about as sneaky as Sky in terms of secretly putting your bill up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

My brother gets signal in West Wales in places I can't, places that are remote. I tend to get better signal more built up area's which is confusing. I won't knock it further as I don't use it, just mentioning my experience in the past with it. I'd probably sooner go with 3 than Orange. My mate's phone bill has gone up again from £36 p/m to nearly £60! He's had a nightmare getting his money back and it seems they are about as sneaky as Sky in terms of secretly putting your bill up.

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Yeah, works contract is with T-Mobile, and we've had two uplifts in this current 24mnth contract. Still by far the cheapest per connection with Blackberry mail though.

RIM/Blackberry announces a surprise first quarter loss and announces that the PlayBook won't be getting the BB10 OS.

They also announced that their subscriber base shrank by 4 million, to 72 million, and that they only shipped 2.7 million of the new BB10 devices - at the low end of analysts' estimates. The shares (BBRY) are off about 25%/-$3.60 right now, down to $10.85 - down to $10.25 at one point. Time to try to catch a falling knife? Hmm... :confused: Since BBRY's management now says they're going to stop providing subscriber numbers going forward, probably not. They obviously see a (bad) trend coming this way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I mean who the heck wants to buy the new 6.4 inch Xperia Z?? Not me! But I have already heard people considering it.

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If it had a flash, I'd buy one right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

No, no, not biased at all!

And carrying a device doesn't automatically make you unbiased. There have been a lot of negative things said about Apple, Android and WP in this thread. Where have you defended the other two? But Apple, Apple is a different story.

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Just to clarify, the end paragraph about bullying kids into buying iPhones was completely a joke. As I've said, I really don't care which brand people buy. As for defense of Android devices, I defended them with my wallet when I purchased mine. I'll openly admit joking on Windows phones based on my experience of Windows as an OS. But if you look I'll also mention it's simply joking and that I haven't really had any time to use Windows phones of any type. Around here it's hard to find anyone that carries a Windows phone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I could repeat it a thousand times, but if you're really that slow, then you're not going to get it. My problem has always been Apple's pricing. Never even told anybody not to express their opinions. In fact whenever someone posted that they bought an iPhone in this thread, I have never mocked their choice or device. Others have done so. I either congratulated or stayed away. And you can quote me on this.

The bone to pick always had been with company's exorbitant prices, not the consumer. The consumer can buy whatever they like. You lot have been trying to justify those prices saying Apple is a "luxury" brand for the last two years. :laugh: This is no longer true. Apple has had to bow to market pressure, because guess what, the consumer has finally decided with their wallets. And not just millions of consumers, but phone review websites have long been criticizing Apple's pricing. The result? 1. Budget iPhone offering. 2. What was once a $200 difference on Amazon between the two major flagship devices from Apple and Samsung, is now only $50. And if the trend continues, I expect it to go even lower.

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Pricing in the interest of company profit protects the share holders, and if the consumers keep paying it then Apple has made a smart move. A third the number of products sold at 3 times the profit margin is still good business sense. I've never myself considered Apple a "luxury brand". I think they use a solid OS/limited hardware model that makes their phones easy to use and easy to transition from one to another. I don't think the build quality is anything exciting. They are solid products but so are many other options.

When the thread was originally started, it was really just a thread to bash the iPad. We all see how that worked. Consumers speak with their money, and will continue to do so. I really don't think any single company will dominate the market any time soon. At times some companies will expand, but when the competition releases new tech they usually gain share once again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

You can go back a page and see which posts actually led us here. And if you don't wanna read "negative" opinions on a brand you love? Exercise your right to freedom and add me to your ignore list. Much smoother day for you I promise! :)

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My point was simply that you are the pot calling the kettle black. As I've said I carry an Android device. It seems that you somehow equate that to love for Apple, but that is not the case. I've just identified what I feel are strong and weak points of the devices we own in our family. By the time I want another phone tech will have changed, so no telling what I will purchase. But I'm not going to classify anyone as "you lot" based on them openly having an opinion.

More than a few users here in the forum have made the switch from one to the other over time, and I'm sure they had their reasons for doing so. As long as it suits them..... that's all that matters.

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Originally Posted by Koz

If it had a flash, I'd buy one right now.

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The huge screen doesn't deter you? I draw the line at 5 inches for a smartphone screen, really. But I guess it's okay as long as you're looking for a phablet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by airshifter

My point was simply that you are the pot calling the kettle black. As I've said I carry an Android device. It seems that you somehow equate that to love for Apple, but that is not the case. I've just identified what I feel are strong and weak points of the devices we own in our family. By the time I want another phone tech will have changed, so no telling what I will purchase. But I'm not going to classify anyone as "you lot" based on them openly having an opinion.

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That assumption was simply based on you almost always defending Apple, and not Android. And again, if you like that brand, there's nothing wrong with that. Somebody who is unbiased wouldn't really care either way, would they?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by airshifter

More than a few users here in the forum have made the switch from one to the other over time, and I'm sure they had their reasons for doing so. As long as it suits them..... that's all that matters.

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And? I have never had a problem with people choosing what suits them. I haven't tried to persuade anybody to choose different. I have always almost exclusively criticized Apple's pricing. Now that their pricing is similar to other flagships, I don't have a problem. Simples.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

That assumption was simply based on you almost always defending Apple, and not Android. And again, if you like that brand, there's nothing wrong with that. Somebody who is unbiased wouldn't really care either way, would they?

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If I was an Apple fan and thought the product was best for me, I'd have one. I don't mind tweaking with the OS or other various things, so I stuck with my Android device. And as far as Android devices, I can only speak for the device I have, since they all vary so much in specs and ability to live with certain software. For me passing on second hand information isn't really very worthy, so I refrain from doing so.

And once again, this lack of hardware choice is IMO something that gives Apple an advantage in software development. They only have to develop for a limited number of devices, where with Android or WP they have to develop for a lot of choices from a lot of companies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by airshifter

If I was an Apple fan and thought the product was best for me, I'd have one. I don't mind tweaking with the OS or other various things, so I stuck with my Android device. And as far as Android devices, I can only speak for the device I have, since they all vary so much in specs and ability to live with certain software. For me passing on second hand information isn't really very worthy, so I refrain from doing so.

And once again, this lack of hardware choice is IMO something that gives Apple an advantage in software development. They only have to develop for a limited number of devices, where with Android or WP they have to develop for a lot of choices from a lot of companies.

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I don't think I can agree with that its just an advantage as it can be a disadvantage as well. Its a bit like A computer vs. game consoles like XB or PS.

The Computer have much larger variances in hardware/software but it usually also allows for more the development of more powerful/advanced applications/software.
While the developers for XB/PS have basically just on set of specs (per console) to develop to but they are on the other hand much more restricted regarding
how advanced/powerful applications they can handle.

In a way its about the same with Iphone vs. Android. IPhones have much smaller variances in hardware then android phones
but the newest high end Android phones with faster cpu. more ram and larger screen allows for more advanced software.