People Power

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So you have given up? Excuse me for not being as defeated as you.

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Given up? Hell no, I went to all the elections since I have had the right to, sometime traveling thousands of kms, and have always elected a new more promising one and will keep doing so. Still we have to be realistic, how can 80% with 20% resources even the balance against 20% with 80% resources?

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Originally Posted by ioan

No I am not for charities, not from you and not from the governments, I am for a system that doesn't need charity, where each healthy individual can make a living and where the less healthy ones can be supported by the healthy ones.
This is not possible with 20% of the population owning 80% of the resources.

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Then we're back to square 1. How do you change the ratio?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Am I alone in thinking that ioan meant to write 'Who said government has to be involved'?

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I might have misunderstood chuck's points are I didn't make myself crystal clear.
My point is that we don't want a society where the government is reduced to giving social aids, we need one where government is there to level things out to benefit everyone. Not sure if this makes it clearer, but I don't think I have the patience to further work on semantics now.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Then we're back to square 1. How do you change the ratio?

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Go back 3 pages and read again, and let's hope that 3 pages later you will not get back to the same point where you are now.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Come on, be realistic here. Room for alternative views in mainstream politics has never been less.

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This is basically what the T.E.A. party is about, demanding something better from our politicians, holding them accountable, etc. There is enough weight behind the T.E.A. party that if they chose to they could start a fairly viable 3rd party. But they seem to have chosen to try to change the Republican Party from the inside. Same with the OWS people. There are probably enough of them that if they really wanted to they could start a 3rd party.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Oh, and I should add that when room for alternative views is found, it seems only to be for right-wing nutcases.

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So you are calling Occupy Wall Street "right-wing nutcases"? Interesting.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Given up? Hell no, I went to all the elections since I have had the right to, sometime traveling thousands of kms, and have always elected a new more promising one and will keep doing so. Still we have to be realistic, how can 80% with 20% resources even the balance against 20% with 80% resources?

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I'll keep asking. What is your proposal for changing this ratio?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Didn't follow the expenses scandal. The little bit I heard about it, makes me think those MP's are dirty b@stards. You won't find me supporting them. But nice little diversion from the point.

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Er... one made in direct response to one of your own. If you don't want me to offer anything in reply, do say so.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

But if you have been all over the media saying "I want to pay more taxes", why would you fight not to pay more taxes?

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Because at the moment one should only have to pay tax according to the rates laid down, so if you believe you are being asked to pay too much, it is only natural to contest it.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So you are calling Occupy Wall Street "right-wing nutcases"? Interesting.

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In mainstream politics, I said — i.e. within the mainstream parties in the world of elected politics. I would have thought this was clear.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I might have misunderstood chuck's points are I didn't make myself crystal clear.
My point is that we don't want a society where the government is reduced to giving social aids, we need one where government is there to level things out to benefit everyone. Not sure if this makes it clearer, but I don't think I have the patience to further work on semantics now.

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How do you propose the government "levels things out to benefit everyone"?