Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

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Originally Posted by ioan

That effect is pretty much real and it's based on physics (you know the classes you always hated and never understood)! :rolleyes:

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the concertina effect is real. i never said it wasn't.

i said it wasn't applicable in this circumstance for two reasons:

1. the mclaren, on hotter dry tyres in the wet than the ferrari, had demonstrably more mechanical grip, therefore had the ability to nullify that effect on the way out of the corner.

2. had the concertina effect played out as per the theory, they would have both crossed the start-finish line at the same speed. they didn't, because the data showed the mclaren to be travelling 6.7km/h slower than the ferrari at the start-finish line.

the actual reason kimi was overtaken was that he braked far, far earlier in the wet (not all his fault, the ferrari dumps tyre temperature in the wet far quicker than the mclaren) and hamilton didn't.

let's see, then. slower than his opponent on the straight by 6.7km/h,when he normally should have been travelling at or near the same speed. sorry. no advantage there.

certainly not when compared to the unpunished incidents pointed out in the past.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Charlie isn't the umpire, it's the stewards who are. It's a confusion many people make.

Charlie Whiting is the Race Director = he decides if it's safe to have a race, if ihe race should be delayed, if the SC should be sent on the track, if there is need for any kind of flags to be waved, if the race should be stopped and other technical problems about the race, but not the sporting aspects of it.

You aren't asking a mechanic his opinion about a legal case either, are you?

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You seem to be a little confused about how a meeting operates.

The Director is responsible for running the race. He is the person in contact with both the Stewards and the teams and directs proceedings.

If there is an incident, which this was, the Race Director referres it to the Stewards for investigation. However, if the Stewards notice it, they refer it to the Race Director for investigation.

After everyone has been informed, including the Race Director and the Team, the Stewards investigate and all teams are informed of the investigation.

If the Race Director was said that everything was OK, then why wasn't he aware of the investigation?

McLaren followed the correct chain of communication.

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Originally Posted by ioan

And I could hardly care about you not knowing squat about physics! :laugh:

As for me being in the same position with you in respect to physics! :rotflmao:

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ioan at his best....

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Originally Posted by ioan

Charlie isn't the umpire, it's the stewards who are. It's a confusion many people make.

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There's no confusion on that point. It's also clear that different FIA officials interpret FIA rules differently.

There appears to be this view that Charlie Whiting's view should be dismissed, and yet it is Charlie who the teams turn to for clarification on any number of issues during the course of the season, and individual races.

Why do they do that if his "opinion" carries no weight, or if he's the "wrong" person to speak to?

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Originally Posted by ioan

Charlie isn't the umpire, it's the stewards who are. It's a confusion many people make.

Charlie Whiting is the Race Director = he decides if it's safe to have a race, if ihe race should be delayed, if the SC should be sent on the track, if there is need for any kind of flags to be waved, if the race should be stopped and other technical problems about the race, but not the sporting aspects of it.

You aren't asking a mechanic his opinion about a legal case either, are you?

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I am well aware of who does what. An umpire answers to a Match Referee. As far as I know, the Race Director is in contact with the Race Stewards. Surely when McLaren asked him he would have checked with them?

and just for your information ioan..i never said either the effect wasn't real...

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

You seem to be a little confused about how a meeting operates.

The Director is responsible for running the race. He is the person in contact with both the Stewards and the teams and directs proceedings.

If there is an incident, which this was, the Race Director referres it to the Stewards for investigation. However, if the Stewards notice it, they refer it to the Race Director for investigation.

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I think that you are a bit confused there, if you really believe that the stewards are there to refer things to the Race Director and also the other way around.

I believe that the stewards investigate whatever they notice as infringement and they also investigate what the Race Director might refer to them.
However they do not refer things for investigation to the Race Director, as well as the Race Director doesn't decided what are the penalties to be applied.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

I am well aware of who does what. An umpire answers to a Match Referee. As far as I know, the Race Director is in contact with the Race Stewards. Surely when McLaren asked him he would have checked with them?

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he might have checked, and the answer was: "probably". In my book "probably" means that it isn't sure and can therefor have a different outcome.

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

and just for your information ioan..i never said either the effect wasn't real...

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Let's see!

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

from what I read and learned about that "concertina effect" I have to say I makes not much sense to me either..this effect just is a theory ...

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What a nice place this forum is, you can find anything one posted in the past! :laugh:
You see? You said it's just a theory!
Now:

[quote="wikipedia.org"]In common usage, the word theory is often used to signify a conjecture, an opinion, a speculation, or a hypothesis. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts]

I can tell you that the concertina effect isn't a theory it is an existing and proven effect, you can check it out by watching races where they have tight and slow corners.

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

ioan at his best....

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Well, I'm not going to sit and listen to so many funny things being written around here without having a bit of fun myself! :rotflmao: