Ant West

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

The similarities end with their nationality.

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Fairly true that. Westy has battled his whole career as a leading privateer on rubbish machinery and even his 'big breaks' with factory teams turned out to be duds whereas Casey always had connections that allowed him to always get a competitive ride . :s tareup: :p

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Originally Posted by tha_jackal

True that! Casey is so grating and irritating.. Ant is laid back and calls it as it is ;)

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Lot's of people call that whinging. ;)

FWIW, I think that West is very talented and capable of being a top 10 MotoGP championship rider but not in the absolute elite to be able to contend for the title. He's definately MotoGP quality in my view and my expectation is to see him clean up in WSS next year and take the title and likely finish his career very successfully in WSB on a good factory bike. His MotoGP aspirations are shot now though with the wave of youth coming through.

All the best to him and I hope for a turn around in fortunes for him in the coming years.

i like westy because he speaks his mind, is talented and has had to work for everything he's got. overrated? nah, i don't agree with that. there are people on here that keep telling me that colin edwards is special. 5 years on mostly top machinery and not a win to show for it. that's over-rated.

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Originally Posted by tha_jackal

Hope he does ride for the last round, sorry gco where did you hear this?

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Have seen it mentioned in an Australian bike forum by a guy who is very genuinely on the money in terms of that information (he has posted a few stories that have proved correct before they were announced).

Have asked for source and/or confirmation to post here.





Garry

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Originally Posted by gco0307

Have seen it mentioned in an Australian bike forum by a guy who is very genuinely on the money in terms of that information (he has posted a few stories that have proved correct before they were announced).

Have asked for source and/or confirmation to post here.





Garry

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Aweomse! Thanks matey, hope it's true.. New track, Westy will be in with a shot of a win IMO ..

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

I got to agree with Alfa here. I saw his supersport wins, and on his day he is a good rider, but that's it. He screwed up his factory rides in 250cc and MotoGP, and on top of it keeps whining about it instead of going out there and doing something about it on the track.

Really don't get what's all the fuss about. :-/

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The fuss is about:

1. The Factory KTM did not come on line until well into the season. It was still considerably under developed;
- they were using two different engines right up till KTM and Ant parted ways
- when a bike in this day and age (2005) is still seizing and throwing the rider off at 240 kms the rider has got every right to get pissed !!!

2. The Factory Kwak;
- short memories for those who do not recall what Ant was able to achieve when he got onto it.
- the 2008 bike is simply crap
- look at what Ant has managed after switching back to 2007 chassis
- Kwak sacked the wrong rider. Remember Hoppers serious indescetion a couple of races back ( injured ribs overnight whilst sleeping - my arse )

3. WSS 2009 - watch this space kids

Well said Jack!!

Injured ribs whilst sleeping :rolleyes:

... We called it something else when I was younger!! :p : ;)

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Originally Posted by Pantah Jack

The fuss is about:

1. The Factory KTM did not come on line until well into the season. It was still considerably under developed;
- they were using two different engines right up till KTM and Ant parted ways
- when a bike in this day and age (2005) is still seizing and throwing the rider off at 240 kms the rider has got every right to get pissed !!!

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Yeah, so?? You make it seem like he is the most unlucky rider ever to ride in the 250s or MotoGP. Everyone has bad to worse situations, a rider's talent lies in the ability to work around them and overcome those obstacles. Only then do they achieve glory, not by whining and complaining about it and then giving up.

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Originally Posted by Pantah Jack

2. The Factory Kwak;
- short memories for those who do not recall what Ant was able to achieve when he got onto it.

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Really? He made his debut at Donington and crashed mid race to finish 11th later. Then for the rest of the season only managed 5 top 10 finishes, whereas his teammate Randy De Puniet managed 7 top 10 finishes since Dongington with two top five which also include a podium on the 2nd spot.

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Originally Posted by Pantah Jack

- the 2008 bike is simply crap

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And yet he gets outperformed for the majority of the year by a newcomer to the team, John Hopkins, who I myself don't regard as a good racer.

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- look at what Ant has managed after switching back to 2007 chassis

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Again, you try to show it like he achieved a miracle. A 5th in Brno and then ouperforming Hopkins on a couple of occassions, before being outclassed again in the last two races. Being outclassed by Hopkins 8 - 4 throughout the year, not counting the injury and retirements.

Well, I already know the answer to that. "Because the bike was setup for Hopkins." Or the bike the year before was made for De Puniet? I'm sorry but those are just excuses. It was nowhere nearly as bad as Honda designing a pocket bike for Pedrosa and forcing Hayden to ride it in 2007.

To me, he is nothing more than a "I want everything to be perfect or I can't win" rider, who wouldn't get off his arse to do something about it. Mistakes after stupid mistakes, ala jump start and lining incorrectly on the grid. Riders like him are at plenty in any motorcycle championship you go to.

Before every race, while on the grid interviews, usually you hear him praying for rain if it's a little cloudy, possibly implying that he'd own the field if it rained. And when it pours, he is nowhere.

A nice guy, decent rider, but NOWHERE near as talented as he is made out to be on this forum. One and a half season in MotoGP was more than enough for him to prove his skills, even on a crap bike, because great riders shine on crap bikes. Melandri got even lesser time than him on the Duc to prove his worth.

And please, nobody in their right mind would compare WSS to MotoGP in terms of competition and level of difficulty. A whole different ballgame. WSS can't even be compared to WSBK. Look at Kenan Sofuoglu, he dominated WSS in 2007 and struggled badly in WSBK this year.

Maybe if West wins the WSS championship next year, and gets to WSBK, gets some good results, maybe he may return to MotoGP, but I highly doubt it. Game over for Anthony West, as far as MotoGP goes.

the point is that on the 2007 machine ant west was ahead of hopkins 4 out of 7 rounds, including the 5th place.

as marco melandri showed sometimes the bike does not fit the rider. is beating hopkins 4 out of 7 a good thing? extrapolated over the season--yes!

as for '07, two things: bartholemew was impressed enough with ant west to offer him a seat for '08. the team had to choose which rider to bring in at what time in motegi, and depunter got the correct call. had it been west, he'd likely have had the podium, but of course, x-exutioner would have called it a lottery podium and dismissed it.

can't edit my post, but it's odd that x-ecutioner would use marco melandri as a comparison. most observers in the paddock have stated the belief that when marco found the ducati less than comfortable to ride, he simply hung his head and quit trying. the rumour is that marco tested the kwack mid-season and was hoping to be released so that he could make the switch, but when ducati found out they made him stay on the ducati the rest of the season. one thing that i think we all can agree on is that ant west has never quit.

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Originally Posted by T-D

the point is that on the 2007 machine ant west was ahead of hopkins 4 out of 7 rounds, including the 5th place.

as marco melandri showed sometimes the bike does not fit the rider. is beating hopkins 4 out of 7 a good thing? extrapolated over the season--yes!

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Well, you certainly saw something in West, that I or Bartholomy or other unbiased people fail to see. I still remain on the same stand that if West is as "GREAT" as people here make him out to be, he should have done much more than beating a rider "4 out of 7 rounds" who was injured half the time and came into the team after him.

Why would Kawasaki design or setup a bike keeping Hopkins in mind? Does it mean that West doesn't know how to get the team and engineers behind him?

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Originally Posted by T-D

as for '07, two things: bartholemew was impressed enough with ant west to offer him a seat for '08. the team had to choose which rider to bring in at what time in motegi, and depunter got the correct call. had it been west, he'd likely have had the podium, but of course, x-exutioner would have called it a lottery podium and dismissed it.

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West would have had a chance in that race if he hadn't jumped the start, and hadn't gotten the penalty. But maybe it wasn't his mistake, the Kawasaki was to blame for his over ambitious early release of the clutch, right? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by T-D

can't edit my post, but it's odd that x-ecutioner would use marco melandri as a comparison. most observers in the paddock have stated the belief that when marco found the ducati less than comfortable to ride, he simply hung his head and quit trying. the rumour is that marco tested the kwack mid-season and was hoping to be released so that he could make the switch, but when ducati found out they made him stay on the ducati the rest of the season. one thing that i think we all can agree on is that ant west has never quit.

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I never compared him with Marco Melandri. All I said was that West got more time on the Kawasaki than Marco got on the Ducati to prove their worth. Half a season more since West joined Kawasaki in mid 2007 and Melandri to Ducati from the start of 2008. That was all. I never compared their talents, but merely the amount of duration.

I can definitely say that both failed in their respective tasks. Plus, that "secret" test that Marco did with them obviously convinced the Kawasaki boffins that Marco was better in some technical area, and hence the boot to West.

Also, if West never gave up, and gave his absolute "BEST", then I'm sorry, his best wasn't good enough. Keeping in mind the 2008 chassis and the crappy bike, he simply didn't show any fire (even on the crappiest of bikes) to convince even one of the 16 teams in MotoGP to offer him a ride for next year. Not even the satellite teams, let alone the factory ones.

Like somebody said in this thread, it's his inability to develop a bike for himself that's his wrongdoing. He is a good motorcycle racer, but if he is incapable of developing a bike, then he simply doesn't belong in MotoGP. Probably he'd do much better in a stock bike championship.