2008 Rally Argentina - official thread

I don't remember being bothered about this sort of thing when I was getting into rallying in the early 1980s, because almost everything used to be spectacular to watch due to being 2wd, while the Quattro was impressive and could be driven spectacularly.

Surely Loeb must be doing something right given his results? I agree that he is unspectacular, but so what? He is 'merely' doing the best job he can in the current type of equipment. When the nature of that equipment changes, he may have to alter his style.

The idea that those of us who want to see cars looking more like they're being pushed hard than is currently the case want to see more accidents is really absurd. To me, the sight of today's WRCs looking like they're running on rails just isn't impressive and doesn't make for good sport either.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I like sidways as much as most others. But I don't see the point in sideways for the sake of sideways. The only reason Sebastien isn't crazy sideways all the time is that with the way the current cars are it's simply not the fast way through the stage.

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What has not been said is that it is not required to attack corners sideways when you have already driven the stage a number of times and made copious notes.

Secondly, just how many cars in top level rallying are rear wheel drive. The Quattro came into being only 26(?) years ago and the 4WD rally cars took quite a while to become what they are today.

Years ago the rally route was secret. Route instructions were not handed out until just before the start. Having the car unbalanced as you approached the corner allowed a bit of a safety margin. Change of direction was a lot easier using both steering input and throttle control. Unfortunately the down side was that locals had a advantage and being secret did throw up the safety factor in that you did not know what was around the corner.

Yes the Citroen is probably the best car out there, Seb has mastered it, however when someone manages to push him, he does make mistakes. Last year the Focus was the best car for most of the year until the C4 was fully developed. This year I believe they are still very close, just the drivers are not as good.

Latvala is still learning and unfortunately I don't think Miko is a number 1 driver yet. I would love to see Petter, Atko and Latvala all in the C4 to see just how close they are to Seb. Give them a few rallies in it before making judgement.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't remember being bothered about this sort of thing when I was getting into rallying in the early 1980s, because almost everything used to be spectacular to watch due to being 2wd, while the Quattro was impressive and could be driven spectacularly.

Surely Loeb must be doing something right given his results? I agree that he is unspectacular, but so what? He is 'merely' doing the best job he can in the current type of equipment. When the nature of that equipment changes, he may have to alter his style.

The idea that those of us who want to see cars looking more like they're being pushed hard than is currently the case want to see more accidents is really absurd. To me, the sight of today's WRCs looking like they're running on rails just isn't impressive and doesn't make for good sport either.

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I think the point that was made with accidents was a valid one. If as Loeb said it was dangerous then perhaps we should respect the opinion of someone as experienced as him and think that perhaps not cutting the tyres just makes things more dangerous and just makes for slower rallying.

As I say all the time something needs to be done to make the cars worth driving sideways in terms of results. If it's quickest to drive straight it'll be driven straight..... I don't think many will disagree with this.

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Originally Posted by malscar

What has not been said is that it is not required to attack corners sideways when you have already driven the stage a number of times and made copious notes.

Years ago the rally route was secret. Route instructions were not handed out until just before the start. Having the car unbalanced as you approached the corner allowed a bit of a safety margin. Change of direction was a lot easier using both steering input and throttle control. Unfortunately the down side was that locals had a advantage and being secret did throw up the safety factor in that you did not know what was around the corner.

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True. Not bad ideas it has to be said....

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Helstar brings up a great point.

There should be changes if spectators are left yawning and "hardcore" rally fans begin to roll their eyes. Example? Predicatble results at just about every event and silly rules (Super Rally) that make things discombobulated.

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How predictable is it really? Are you that good at pickems? OK, Loeb usually wins, but 2nd position down is usually pretty unpredictable, and nobody predicted what happened in Argentina. Can you predict for me the winner of Rally Finland? Will Loeb finally win there? :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

most people are very skilled drivers and aren't idiots but on rare occasions one might by chance see an unskilled idiot who I MUST stress is not the norm on the type of event driving stupidly sideways.

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Rossi at Rally NZ '06 was stupidly sideways.

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

How predictable is it really? Are you that good at pickems? OK, Loeb usually wins, but 2nd position down is usually pretty unpredictable, and nobody predicted what happened in Argentina. Can you predict for me the winner of Rally Finland? Will Loeb finally win there? :)



Rossi at Rally NZ '06 was stupidly sideways.

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Just make sure you point out the fact that he's not stupidly sideways when on a bike. Don't want the perfect statement police on your back now ;)

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

Can you predict for me the winner of Rally Finland? Will Loeb finally win there? :)

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no, but also no.

I can't believe I have to ask this here, but since offically nothing was published, here goes; does anyone know reasons for retirements of H. Solberg, L. Perez Companc & T. Gardemeister on 2008 Rally Argentina? (Yes, the one that finished less than a week ago).

Thank you.

henning broke the suspension twice in two different days, in the same front right wheel, so he had to stop in the stage, not far from where his brother also retired.

toni has some kind of hydraulic pressure, not sure.

companc went off the road, not sure where.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course BUT it's not Sebastien's fault that there seem to be no drivers that can really compete with him since Gronholm's retirement? Is it his fault that Citroen seem to prepare the best cars for just about each event? StupidRally is dumb. But this has nothing to do with Sebastien.

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No, I'm not blaming Seb for being an outstanding driver. His skill is just on a completely different level than the rest of the drivers. I guess my post was more of a complaint because the course of WRC is frustrating me at the moment.

I also cannot predict what will happen in future since my crystal ball is out of commission. All I can do is hope that Max steps down and someone is placed in the FIA who will change the WRC for the better.