Rally Deutschland 2012

Any news/links/photo/video for the historic part of this Rally?

Our pics from day 2:

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https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...81498980_n.jpg

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Full album HERE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

I wonder if the decisive thing is just that very thing about long term relationships and mutual respect...You're right, its totally absurd, insane even to zero in on and claim "The car is built just for Loeb".. Well who the hell is Ford building their car for? Ben Klock? Me?
I keep referencing this old long interview with Christian Loriaux in magazine Racecar Engineering right when he came aborad at Prodrive---and subsequently we know, right when Subaru began their sudden and drastic decline that led to them leaving WRC...
Now all the details of things are one thing, but the shocking and lasting impression of the article was his enormous ego, and how he said in many ways, and in clear way that the drivers are not capable of understanding "all the systems" like he can
and so, in essence, not explicite but clear nonetheless, you (he) really don't need to listen to their uneducated subjective feedback..because HE knows better everything going on in the car..

Now I'm not making this up, I love languages and I read very very well, and not just superficially, when i read I understand when you say things you imply tons of more things......and this was English so not too hard to understand...
Quite frankly I could not believe what he was saying and implying---except that I have known academics and engineers exactly like this who "know" they know in short "everything" and that their "knowledge" trumps all other opinions and that includes direct experience..
Now most people I know over 20-30 years don't seem to change their "world view". They may learn more details but their view of their relationship to the external world doesn't change--probably not from when they're children..

So if he was saying you can't listen to the drivers back then, and he's clearly the darling child of M-Sprout, then why would he listen to anybody.

This makes me wonder if the key to Loebs long success is a more co-operative or collaborationist atmosphere at Citroen vis-a-vis Loeb and the designers/engineers and maybe even down to the mechanics vs the "Great man" theory in the more hierarchical British culture which we have no reason to think doesn't permeate M-sport. And that observation is from working with elite level French mechanics and teams and being around elite or former elite British mechanics and engineers....

Or the opposite way to look at it is maybe the struggles of the other teams stems from their probably more hierarchical organisation, and people....

I base that on the times which like I did claculate yesterday, Petter was cruising along at an actual 0.997% of Loebs times.
So the car can do it, the drivers can do it down to 0.003% (that's three one thousandth of 1 percent).
But something cracks consistently... maybe so simple as Team 'atmosphere'?

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OK, team atmosphere is important regarding every day business as known on Wall Street and other businesses.

But no, this tiny difference cannot be explained as "team atmosphere" it´s just spelled LOEB. When he cruises around the other top guys, and mark I call them top drivers because they are, have to to do everything they can to have same speed. But no, it´s impossible to have that for example on 45 km German tarmac stage.

So let´s see this clear. Mr Loeb is so superntural that unless he don´t qiut the WRC ASAP the WRC will be dead and gone in a couple of years from now...

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Ιn many sports there are athlets that have dominate for years championships.They didn t destroy their sport.Simply they raised the level.(Schumacher,Rossi ie)
Don t moan about Loeb,better thank God that we have the opportunity to see his perfection.

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i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skarderud

i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

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Shumacher destroyed F1 - No, FIA did that. I like the yearly days of Schumacher when he was trying to beat Senna, Hakkinen, etc with slower car. Last his (champion) years were lame though, he was just cruising to victory just like Loeb does now... strange coincidence. I hope WRC will very much survive and get back it's charm next year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skarderud

he also have the best codriver.

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Not sure if there's ever been a proper discussion about the relative merits of co-drivers but from conversations with people who have far more rally knowledge and experience than myself, I've been told Elena isn't a great co-driver really. Obviously good, but not great - it's simply that he makes Loeb feel 'comfortable' (which some may argue is what makes a good co-driver). From people who have discussed these sort of things in depth I'm led to believe Giraudet and Floene are generally regarded as the best in the business, but feel free to correct me/put forward a different opinion!

I believe only in results - if Elena was co-driver in 8 titles, then he must be the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skarderud

i have to correct you, dimvii. yes, schumi ruined F1. really. i didn't watch F1 for 8-10 yrs because the uninterested races with schumi 10-20 sec in front. always.

same in wrc, with seb.all respect to that guy, seems like a really nice guy to. he's the best driver, oh yes! he also have the best codriver. noone will disagree he is inside the best team(with best budget), and few will disagree he had the best car the most of times. the problem is that noone has had this combination before. in the "golden" 90's, the best drivers won 3 events thru the year, and retired 3-4 events also.
to be analytic, seb have been a "lucky guy", variable competition, few teams, max 2-3 drivers close to competitive, but not totaly at "par". cars has been breakable, due to overload and to high risktaking from the other guys. i think that, they have to be at 105% all the time to match his speed, then its easy to do mistakes. but its not sebs fault.

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A good driver also make sure he has a good car.
Meaning he will be a vital part in making the team and car.

Its not like the driver just drives the car at the race/rally and everything is already done.
Both in WRC and F1 there is allot of hours of testing from the drivers and it also requires them
to be able to give good input to the engineers and mechanics on the car, settings and etc.

As well as "finding"/"picking" his team. I'm pretty sure that Seb knows exactly how he want
the car to be, what typ of mechanics and engineers he want to have around him.

Obviously Citroen have the biggest budget but it does not matter if you don't spend the money
in the right way. Its like in sailing it doesn't help to have the fastest boat if you're going in the wrong direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDC...layer_embedded

too fast

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