Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

I'd like to think there is no such thing as 'biased' stewarding. However, the F1A don't help themselves when coming to some decisions - the general public think that Sunday's decision was a 'carve up' - in favour of a certain team. Unless a really serious offense has taken place (whatever that is), a fine would surely have sufficed. Sometimes the greater good of the sport has to come first.

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Thing is you simply can't give a fine for an incident where someone is deemed to have unfairly gained a sporting advantage. As Ioan says it gives teams the opportunity to buy their way out.

The consetina effect does not apply as I understand it the speed was measured at the finish line for each car. Not at the same moment.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Which is fine if you don't take into account the concertina effect which Mickey T feels is less relevant than occums shaver even though occums beard trimmer isn't an accepted motorsport rule.

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from what I read and learned about that "concertina effect" I have to say I makes not much sense to me either..this effect just is a theory that is based on ifs and whens....What I DO see is(there's enough footage to prove) a McL goin way faster than a Ferrari coming up to the chicane..and I see a McL goin slower than a Ferrari coming out of the chicane..those are facts...

and I also wonder why it takes FIA so long to come up with a public statement on what exaclty Lewis penalty is based on..especialy when there's so much controversy about it...and with yet another race coming up..nobody knowing what can and can't be donne or what should be donne in this or that situation..

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Thing is you simply can't give a fine for an incident where someone is deemed to have unfairly gained a sporting advantage. As Ioan says it gives teams the opportunity to buy their way out.

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Fair point, however what is an advantage? What do the regulations state? Normally I wouldn't advocate a fine, but in this instance as the 'offence' wasn't totally black & white - and Charlie Whiting had advised McLaren what they should do - the 25 secs did seem harsh.
All this incident has done is open a can of worms - the F1A need to come out with definitive rules/regs/penalties next season, and maybe these 'grey' areas can be sorted out.

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Originally Posted by Mark

The consetina effect does not apply as I understand it the speed was measured at the finish line for each car. Not at the same moment.

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On the contrary it does apply. Hamilton had caught up to Kimi at a corner (under braking) right? Well people are basing their opinion of whether he gained an advantage on the fact that he was about the same distance from Kimi's car on the straight (under power) as he was coming into the corner.

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

from what I read and learned about that "concertina effect" I have to say I makes not much sense to me either..this effect just is a theory that is based on ifs and whens....

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That effect is pretty much real and it's based on physics (you know the classes you always hated and never understood)! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Fair point, however what is an advantage? What do the regulations state? Normally I wouldn't advocate a fine, but in this instance as the 'offence' wasn't totally black & white - and Charlie Whiting had advised McLaren what they should do - the 25 secs did seem harsh.
All this incident has done is open a can of worms - the F1A need to come out with definitive rules/regs/penalties next season, and maybe these 'grey' areas can be sorted out.

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I agree. But as prescribed in the rules 25 seconds is the penalty if it happens in the last 5 laps. A fine for a sporting offence is not on IMHO. In the case of a minor offence to do with safety I think a fine is sufficient but when someone has gained competitive advantage unfairly.

We need to bear in mind that the regulations are by no means an exhaustive list of offences and punishments. I read nowhere that a team is not allowed to pelt their opposition with watermelons but surely if this was to happen you'd expect them to be penalised in some way.If the regulations were exhaustive and specific we wouldn't need stewards at all. You would simply look up the offence and the penalty and enforce it. It's not that simple though. I think the rule should be that if you do something like this then you wait until AFTER the next corner to make another move and if it happens before a series of corners then you should clear the corners and then another corner before making a move.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

... and Charlie Whiting had advised McLaren what they should do ...

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Charlie didn't advise them anything, they asked if it's OK or not and his answer was "PROBABLY" it is OK.

When there is a probability involved you better not take it for a sure thing.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Actually MS and PDLR had a contact that sent MS over the 2nd part of the chicane.

Care to show me where was there contact between LH and KR?

Also, what should have MS done, if it would have been an unfair move? Give up his position to a driver who never earned it?

Stop comparing apples and bananas, try oranges or tomatoes, they look more alike.

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I'm talking about the Heidfeld and MS incident. No contact.