2008 Rally Argentina - official thread

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

I think you miss the point of rallying, which is, as Daniel said, a sport. It is not a competition of how sideways you can put a car through a corner. And it is sickening that you begrudge a braver man than you when he remarks that in his opinion, it would be safer with cuts. Do you not support safety? Do you want a repeat of Rally GB '05? Perhaps it should happen more often, to improve the show?

I'm not a massive Loeb fan (last year I supported Marcus) but I don't think that his style is boring. Last year in NZ he was the only driver to hit a bank on the Whaanga Coast that I saw. And, indeed, Marcus wasn't always spectacular, for example I remember Rally NZ '05 when he was just as train-style as Loeb.

And what is the sudden attitude against cuts? Were you arguing against them last year? Surely it can't be that much more expensive to have a technician cut a few bits off a tyre before they go out to the stages.

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I’m not too sure what the problem with cutting is. I have heard that the cuts wouldn’t be the same for each tyre – and would be unfair to some drivers.
As for the other argument to drive slower – no chance – drivers aren’t going to go slower in case the opposition don’t.
So the Pirelli tyre used for Argentina will be used on the Acropolis?
Never have been and never will be in favour for control tyres.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Never have been and never will be in favour for control tyres.

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me too

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Originally Posted by Helstar

Ok let's do a Citroen + Michelin championship then. All controlled by those you like... and you guys are happy !
Ps. Yes Loeb can't go sideways. I mean: he avoids to ... because he is "oh no I will lose precious time on every corner plus destroy my tyres ... who cares about doing some show for people I only want to win" type of racer.

(yes first time I'm actually bashing Loeb, it was time uh ? ^^)

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If th fastest way to do a corner is not to slip, so a WRC shoudl not slip.
I am big fan of themost spectacular drivers (Colin, Galli, etc) but I have to recognize Loeb masters the rally world by own merits.Michlin favour him? may be, may be not, but with Pirelli he is still there.

A Sport is where the best one has his prize, that is what I want.

If Loeb, or Citroen, or his technicians, are the ones who best judge weather and road conditions, and cut preciselly what is need, I am fond that his gets his prize!!!

Do not get me wrong, I want more competition, I preffer Latvala to Loeb, but I want JM to beat him because he does everything better.

Knowing to take care of the car, and setting it up to the conditions is and should ever be part of the WRC.


Ahh, onmoe thing, Loeb goes sideways, specially when he is on a charge in gravel!!! (Not as sideways as JML for instance, but very nice to watch him live)

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

I think you miss the point of rallying, which is, as Daniel said, a sport. It is not a competition of how sideways you can put a car through a corner. And it is sickening that you begrudge a braver man than you when he remarks that in his opinion, it would be safer with cuts. Do you not support safety? Do you want a repeat of Rally GB '05? Perhaps it should happen more often, to improve the show?

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I think the last sentence very much puts things into perspective.....

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Rallying is a sport. Being a sport means that people try 100%. If you want to see people going sideways for fun go to your local rally where unskilled idiots with too much money throw their cars sideways and hope that they get around the corner. That or go and see some synchronised swimming ;)

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Daniel, don't know if I should even bother, but when you go and insult tens of thousands of people world wide doing local Club level rallys by calling them "unskilled idiots" without reservation, it seems a bit rich.

So first: For a few, it is a JOB. I presume you have one and if you are honest you will admit that we don't "Try 100%" at our jobs.

We do what is needed to do the job.

Ironically, it is always amateurs who spit up bilge about " I always go 100%!, no 109%, no wait....127%!!!"

But that's just a little thing.

What I want to know is why you Daniel from where ever living now in Wales has the balls to call everybody doing local level rallying "unskilled idiots"?

I know, especially since the arrival of fancy turbo 4wd cars in the GpA years, that EVERYWHERE has LOTS of unskilled, RICH idiots driving those GpA or GpN cars, but that deplorable trend extends all the way up right thru to the WRC.
So why the hate for club guys.
You know Daniel that not everybody doing local rallies are unskilled idiots, why the hate for the whole scene?

Could it be you were just shooting your mouth off like you tend to do too often?
Would you like to amend your statement with some qualifying phrases so it doesn't look like you are insulting everybody doing club rallies as unskilled idiots?
I mean you'll get no arguments that in many places that the top of Regional events but especially National Championship Events are infested with unskilled idiots whose primary skill is the ability to fund or find a budget, and to tow to events. And in many countries, particularly the USA, Canada, Australia, the huge distances adds BIG driving distances, sparse sponsorship opportunities and big TIME demands, it seems even moreso that there are many MANY unskilled---in driving---idiots, but they're at the so-called Top.

So you want to maybe apologize to all those people you've just insulted to make a point?

Or maybe you can tell us about your own exploits as a rally driver, or co-driver?

We don´t talk about sideways driving! We talk about rally. If you want to see speed race go to circuit racing and dont call some rally drivers, unskilled idiots or synchronised swimming! Maybe you should leave rallying to people who want to watch rallying. Yes Rallying is a sport but not with race cars. :dozey:

I didn't say all people on local rallies are unskilled idiots. Just that if you go to a local rally you're almost guaranteed to see a few of them. Wow seems you need to qualify every single thing in every single post these days :confused:

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Originally Posted by Brother John

We don´t talk about sideways driving! We talk about rally. If you want to see speed race go to circuit racing and dont call some rally drivers, unskilled idiots or synchronised swimming! Maybe you should leave rallying to people who want to watch rallying. Yes Rallying is a sport but not with race cars. :dozey:

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You've hit the nail on the head. The cars have too much grip so it's fastest to drive them as straight as possible. Why blame Loeb for driving as fast as he can just because his style isn't as flamboyant as some others?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I didn't say all people on local rallies are unskilled idiots. Just that if you go to a local rally you're almost guaranteed to see a few of them. Wow seems you need to qualify every single thing in every single post these days :confused:

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Is it so much trouble to think a second or two?
By not qualifying your statement, you did, intentionally or not, lump everybody at local rallies together as unskilled idiots, and I for one sure as hell don't want to be associated in any way with goons such as Ken Block which I see as the epitome of what is wrong with rally from bottom to top, while on the other hand, I would be proud to go toe to toe with the boys in Finland's F-Cup.

So you you really OUGHT TO qualify things when you slinging insults around, otherwise how are we supposed to know just who you're insulting?

And I just won a bet that you would not have the balls to apologize for speaking unthinkingly.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You've hit the nail on the head. The cars have too much grip so it's fastest to drive them as straight as possible. Why blame Loeb for driving as fast as he can just because his style isn't as flamboyant as some others?

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Daniel i don´t blame Loeb. He is the best in this type of cars.
Just want to see a difference between rally and race cars, which is everything i mean. If I saw how the shockabsorber of Hennings care came in front of the window!!! That is for me not a rallycar but a WTCC car. :s mokin: