There is an issue here: the team was penalised but the drivers were not; I think that set a precedent.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
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There is an issue here: the team was penalised but the drivers were not; I think that set a precedent.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
Yeah, but that was in practice, and Lewis blocking Kimi during his hot laps was in qualifying. Nothing to do with the last race! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Yeah but that doesn't count because it helped Hamilton, while this one is different cause it didn't help him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
At least that's the McLaren logic.
People should never stop trawling back as long as it is done for JUSTICE!Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
ioan, are you seriously suggesting that FIA should ignore McLaren's appeal on the grounds they didn't punish Hamilton earlier for completely different issues?
Yes but Hamilton could have got an advantage. Why should the fine for the BMW and Williams drivers be any heavier. There's a difference between fuel that's slightly too cold and using a set of tyres too many ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
Daniel, the severity of possible punishments should in no way be affected by what other teams have gotten for completely different matters.
The issue is the application of the rules by the FIA. The fault for inconsistency, if there is any, rests with the FIA not any team.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
All I'm suggesting is that they shouldn't expect the other drivers to be punished when their driver escaped punishment 2x during the last week end, one for a technical issue (like the fuel temps) and one of his own making (he interfered with Kimi's qualifying laps twice while he was on his outlaps).Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
So? :p :
On the contrary it should! The penalties for deliberate infringements should always be harsh, Ones where it's a grey area shouldn't be too harsh but should send a message to be more careful and when it's clear that it was an accident or not intentional then the penalty should be minimal if indeed there should even be one.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
:laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
Where as the Stewards of the meeting could not prove that their petrol was outside the permitted limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63569
Thanks I think that cleared it up, you are then agreeing with me that FIA should investigate the appeal on it's own merit without without influence from what McLaren themselves did or didn't do?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Really I can't understand:
"The Woking-based team wasted little time in notifying the FIA of their intention to appeal"
"supporting our drivers' best interest." - seems weird after what Lewis said yesterday.
"McLaren's motivation in planning an appeal" - I think that behind the scenes Macca and FIA will reach an agreement - McLaren won't appeal, FIA won't further punish them in December.
Let's be honest here: if it was ant who interfered with either Hamiltons or Massa's qualifying lap, he would have been severely penalised. But because it was Hamilton who interfered with another driver's qualifying lap, the stewards turned a blind eye to the incident.
I suspect the stewards simply didn't have the balls to give Hamilton a 5 place or 10 place grid penalty.
What do you think?
Yeah but when they were faced with the teams they realized that things were not as easy as they thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Always read the latest news, not only the ones that suit your POV:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63569Quote:
BMW Sauber and Williams were not punished for the fuel temperature discrepancy at the Brazilian Grand Prix because the FIA stewards could not prove that their petrol was outside the permitted limit.
A statement issued by the stewards at Interlagos on Sunday night said that they could not say for certain that the fuel in the cars was below the 10-degree maximum limit allowed in the regulations.
The stewards said that there was a discrepancy between the Formula One Management temperature of 37 degrees and that provided by the FIA and team-contracted meteorologists Meteo France, which was a few degrees cooler.
Furthermore, they made it clear that they did not have certain data in their possession that would have helped prove the teams were in breach of the regulations.
In particular, their statement said they lacked: "a precise reading of the temperature of 'fuel on board the car' which shows fuel at more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature"; and "a regulation stating in clear terms that for the purposes of Article [6.5.5] the definitive ambient temperature shall be indicated on the FOM timing monitors alone."
The statement added: "In view of the matters referred to above, the stewards consider that not withstanding the presumptions referred to above there must be sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually 'on board the car' and also as to the true ambient temperature as to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty."
Still McLaren believe that they "had no choice" but to appeal! Bunch of hypocrites.
You know that saying that goes something like:
"Give them one finger and they'll take the whole arm!"
I think that the challenge for the crown is more important the the book of the rules. Stewards were right not to punish Lewis in Saturday and not to punish BMW and Williams in Sunday.
I think that he interfered with his direct competitor for the title so he should have had his best 3 qualifying times erased, like it happened in the past with other drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Yeah!! I guess you are right. They didn't want to give Bernie a heart attack :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
They are the masters of saying one thing while they do the opposite:Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63593Quote:
Whitmarsh has made it clear, however, that McLaren's motivation in planning an appeal is not aimed to attacking Ferrari.
"I want to stress that our quarrel, if you can call it that, is not with Ferrari or with Kimi Raikkonen," he said.
"No, on the contrary, Kimi won the race fair and square and Ferrari did a good job to finish first and second.
"Our argument is with the stewards' decision in relation to the cars of Rosberg, Kubica and Heidfeld. Hence our decision to lodge our intention to appeal."
So they have nothing against Kimi or Ferrari but they want Kimi's WDC title however.
It just once again showes how incompetent the FIA has been this season..I mean if they not even can deal with this..well ya.....simple temperatures issue....How can you expect them to deal with more complicated issues when it comes to checking the legality of cars ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Or do anything that may affect the ever growing number of TV viewers around the world. Since these figures are at an all time high, seriously, who needs to be stressing about the small stuff.... it gets in the way of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
McLaren have appealed, I doubt it will change anything. Time to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
I think they would have difficulty checking the temperature of a dog at the Vets!! :D
Yeah, and I also think that the FIA and it's stewards had no right to refuse Ferrari when they wanted to lodge a complaint against Hamilton because he blocked Kimi!Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
So in the light of this the FIA should decide to strap Hamilton of any points he did score or might yet score for the Brazilian GP!
Let there be JUSTICE, but for EVERYONE! :mad:
It seems that the temperature issue is not as simple as you might believe. There are to many relative factors to be taken into account to be able to actually prove that the fuel really was cooler than permitted by the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
Shouldn't it be noted that the Stewards chose not to penalise BMW and Williams because they weren't sure that the temperature reaings were accurate enough?
No one has said that the two teams are definitively guilty of a rule breach but no penalty will be levied because we don't want to affect the championship.
If the Stewards were positive that the teams were in breach of the regs then they would have been punished, championship or no championship. Malaysia '99 being a previous example.
Right, nothing changed, the same hypocrite team like always.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
Do you want the result to change?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I posted it on the previous page, but no one cares about FACTS. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Yep, change the result, throw them out of F1 as they deserve it after the mess they did this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
I was referring to the Brazilian GP :sQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Really man!! Get a grip !! :rolleyes:
well like I said..shows how incompetent they are...If they can't guarantee an exact measurement..why keep that rule anyway ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
where was the 100% prove it the whole "spy-gate" affair ? And still McL got punished for it ! Is it because I have plans at home on how to make a bomb I have to be prosecuted for being a terrorist ? Don't think so..But guess I will never understand the FIA logic anyway !Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
I forgot my selective memory home and was referring to this whole mess of a "sport".Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
ok we understand you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
In Alonso's laptop and email. In 780 pages of illegally obtained technical information. And so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
Some people are good at ignoring the obvious. :roleyes:
since when are emails prove ? they can be manipulated in so many ways my dear ioan....Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Illegally obtained ? what's illegal about getting docs from someone that still was a ferrari employee at that moment ?....who not even did this on request by someone inside McL..but acted on his own account ! I keep saying Ferrari themself are to blame in all this for not protecting there files in a better way !
If Ferrari were to protect their files from anyone getting them the best thing to do would be to get all their sensitive data in a room, fill the room with concrete and then drop it into the mariana trench. You can't run a team properly and have 100% security. 100% security means no one having access to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
If the emails were manipulated then why did McLaren not appeal? Because they weren't.
If McLaren had raised the alarm when they were offered the data then they could claim innocence but they didn't and they made use of the data.
GUILTY
The stewards at the Brazilian GP were lenient towards all teams and drivers that broke rules. Especially considering that their leniency favoured Hamilton with the tyre and blocking issue, I don't think McLaren are in any position to appeal when the ruling doesn't favour them.