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Grosjean started out extremely quick, but extremely erratic too. He seems to have improved his game in the intervening time period...Quote:
He was extremely erratic last time he had a half-decent car. I can't see why it would be different this time around.
Shall we have a quick recap of how things stand so far for 2014 (Oct 28th 2013)?
Bold = Confirmed (as far as I know)
RED BULL RACING - RENAULT
1.Sebastian Vettel
2.Daniel Ricciardo
FERRARI
3.Fernando Alonso
4.Kimi Raikkonen
MERCEDES
5.Lewis Hamilton
6.Nico Rosberg
LOTUS - RENAULT
7.Romain Grosjean
8.Nico Hulkenberg or Pastor Maldonado
MCLAREN - MERCEDES
9.Jenson Button
10.Sergio Perez (realistically I can't see Perez being ousted unless it's for Alonso only)
FORCE INDIA - MERCEDES
Paul di Resta, Adrian Sutil, Pastor Maldonado, Felipe Massa or Nico Hulkenberg
SAUBER - FERRARI
Sergey Sirotkin or Vitaly Petrov, Esteban Gutierrez, Felipe Massa, Nico Hulkenberg or Pastor Maldonado (not sure if any drivers other than those will get in really)
TORO ROSSO - RENAULT
16.Jean-Eric Vergne
17.Daniil Kvyat
WILLIAMS - MERCEDES
Valtteri Bottas, Pastor Maldonado or Felipe Massa (don't know who else has a serious chance)
MARUSSIA - FERRARI
20.Jules Bianchi
21.Max Chilton, Kevin Magnussen or someone else with cash going spare
CATERHAM
22.Heikki Kovalainen hopefully, or Charles Pic or Giedo van der Garde. Could be anyone really.
I would love to see Hulkenberg at Lotus. I like how Grosjean drives, he actually tries to pass (unlike many "top" drivers) other drivers, and since he stopped crashing cars every other rolling start, he has some great finishes. Hulkenberg would bring the same kind of vibe to Lotus.
I can't see Gutierrez staying on F1, unless:
*Sauber loses Hulkenberg to Lotus or any other team.
*Sauber has to hire Sirotkin to please their new backer.
*Sauber decides that they don't want 2 new F1 drivers in 2014, and they might as well retain someone who knows the team and has ties with a Mexican backer.
With all the troubles Venezuela is having right now, will Maldonado have a backer for 2014?
The Sauber is looking like a decent car now. If they can maintain that form into 2014 I hope they have a driver worthy of it. If they lose Hulkenburg maybe they could get someone like Sutil (fast but with some money too)
It looks like Ferrari took the right driver, since Kimi is now being asked to move over. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by keysersoze
It´s OK as long as no moron shout F...... idiot move out of the way!
Looking through the confirmed and likely seats for next year I really fear for the future of Paul diResta. Rumours suggest that Hulk is going back to Force India and they will keep Sutil, leaving diResta without a drive. There is one seat at the black team available alongside Grosjean but it looks possible that either Massa or Maldonado will go there, that leaves Sauber or Williams. Sauber look almost certain to sign Sirotkin in place of Hulk, so if they keep Guiterez (sp sorry) then that leaves Williams. Bottas will almost certainly stay and the rumour mill suggests Massa in the other car.
You have to deserv or buy a seat in F1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anfield5
Paul di Resta may have earned a great reputation from his DTM career, but hasn't accomplished anything in F1 to make us miss him. He is a talented driver who can probably succeed in top level motorsports competitions. It looks like he could be joining a long list of "good but not great" drivers who were retired from F1 after 2-3 years (Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Petrov, Glock, etc)
Curiously, if Hulkenberg and Sutil are signed at FI, then the Indian team will have an all-German driver line up ;p
If Hulkenberg misses out on the Lotus drive, I hope he stays at Sauber. It would be a waste to go back to Force India and Sauber seem to be better after a bad start this year.
I am not sure what Hulkenberg has to do in order to get a top drive. He has shown plenty thus far. Hope he gets a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
Absolutely, Hulk should be in a big team, no disrespect to Kimi, but I would have rather seen hulk in a Ferrari alongside Fred. It seems Hulk's issue is he is a 75kg monster.
sad that potential the 5 best drivers F1 has ever seen in a future year might all be left out because of weight.
In$anity:Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131030/F1/131039981
The way I see it.
Maldonado has won one race. In which he was brilliant. He has scored some points but been erratic most of the time.
While Nico has not got the good results (wins and podiums), he has shown consistent speed and a cool head. Something Mr Maldonado hasn't IMO. I know which I would rather give a go.
Totally agree guys. @Dr-Alcatraz I couldn't have said it better myself. That was very sad to read...
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
Maldonado raced consistently in 2013. As for speed, what do you expect from the car that now barely manages to get into Q2 sessions? Pairing one strong driver and another fast driver with good sponsors is a sensible approach. That's the best way to make sure that the team has a chance to give both of its drivers a good car next season. What I don't like is when a team fills all positions with pay drivers. I am actually happy that Maldonado finally gets a chance to with a decent team and with a decent teammate. One season like this will settle all doubts about Maldonado once and for all. He will either sink or swim, and there will be no possible excuses regarding a car that's too slow or the teammate that's too weak for him.
The way positions shuffle worked in the last few years, Hulkenberg had too much bad luck. Force India is not too bad team to join again. Stranger things have happened before. There will be surely a big shuffle of seats at the top teams again next year, so I hope Hulkenberg will get his chance then.
I agree with your reasoning, and I really think Rogro is the goods, but he is not exactly an established super-star. He has been in a very good car these last two seasons and is yet to win, although that is largely due to Vettel dominance. If he reverts to his poorer form Lotus could end up with a top car and a weak driving tandem. I really don't think that is going to happen, but if it does one thing is for sure; the crash structure of the Lotus challenger will be thoroughly tested. At least they should be solvent :uhoh: :spin:Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
It would be a real pity if Hülkenberg is left without a drive or even struggling to get a decent drive. Reminiscent of the fate of his countryman Nick Heidfeld. On a more positive note there is still a possibility Hulk might get a lucky break in the style of Button/Webber later in his career if he somehow manages to hang around for a while till then. Nico Rosberg has taken his time as well before getting more competitive cars.
I know we are wondering whether Vettel can get anywhere near Schumacher's records, but at this rate he will be racing only against paydrivers later in his career, making it too easy for him. But who will be there? I am seeing potential rivals getting left aside. I also see that Robin Frijns, who I have been rating very highly based on feeder series (one of the most talented upcoming drivers of the last quite a few years IMO), can't get funds together to continue racing career.
Well I think Seb will definitely get past The Shoe's pole positions record, he's probably only 3 or 4 seasons away from achieving that. He may be able to match the 7 WDC record, but not sure if he will get 8 or more. As for 91 wins, that is still a looooong way away and I think that is one record that may never be broken :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
But we never know, Seb is still only 26 so theoretically he could still be racing for another 14 years or so. He could land up with ridiculous stats by that time. Let's wait and see :)
Ok, can someone tell me what the hell is going on in F1 silly season at the minute? Pasta gets the lotus seat over the hulk? What is going on there then???
Two Russian kids, Sirotkin and I can't remember the other ones name. Haven't even proved themselves in Gp2 never mind being front in the line for a first team seat in F1.
And Max chilton has apparently secured a load of money (12 million euros or something?) to secure his seat in F1, and to be honest, he's done nothing of note all season.
I know there has always been pay drivers in F1, but this is starting to get ridiculous.
It's a shame there couldn't be another form of single seater racing that was much cheaper. That way we could see the average drivers with money in one sport and we could all watch the BEST drivers with no money in a different race.
Regulars to this forum will know I don't usually rant but.....
What is going on? The deepening effects of economic crisis I say. Not many teams left, who can really choose and hire drivers without worrying about the budget.
Somebody somewhere (don't remember which thread) was asking, why did Ferrari hire Räikkönen over Hülkenberg. Well, it has to be said that Ferrari has seemed quite conservative for some time already. For years they didn't dare to let Massa go and take a gamble on a younger driver. It looks like they want to be absolutely sure the driver is experienced and especially proven, delivers points and doesn't make mistakes. However, this conservatism might be costing Ferrari titles...
Ferrari's driver choice situation was similar to Red Bull's. In both cases Räikkönen was one contender for the seat, together with a young driver (Ricciardo or Hülkenberg). RBR took a different approach by hiring the young one, believing it would have greater long-term benefit. It is often a tricky decision for teams to make. Only time will tell the answer. Even if I ponder whether it could have possibly made more sense if RBR preferred Räikkönen and Ferrari Hülkenberg.
But Hülkenberg without an F1 seat? Mmm, that's a bit of a blow for F1. One of, if not the most promising driver among those, who have debuted in 2009 or later. Could anyone have imagined in early 2000s that someone among the most promising drivers at the time like Montoya, Räikkönen, Alonso, couldn't get a seat just because they didn't have money?
Even if we don't grasp the situation fully now, long-term consequences of recession affecting driver market could be felt some time in the future. As I said, people could still complain in 10 years' time that Vettel is winning too much without much competition. And at least partly you would know the reason...
See my post above from yesterday. Lotus needs money to develop a better car. Going with one strong pay driver is not too bad. It would not do good to Hulkenberg if Lotus is broke and builds another car that performs like a 2011 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
Sirotkin and Kvyat were already discussed in separate threads. Kvyat is a star of RedBull's junior program, and they only promote their own drivers into Toro Ross. Sirotkin gets the seat primarily for the sponsors.Quote:
Two Russian kids, Sirotkin and I can't remember the other ones name. Haven't even proved themselves in Gp2 never mind being front in the line for a first team seat in F1.
And Max chilton has apparently secured a load of money (12 million euros or something?) to secure his seat in F1, and to be honest, he's done nothing of note all season.
...
The new investors want Lotus to hire Hulkenberg.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/197807/..._imminent.html
That sounds very promising. They also state they have spoken to both Kimi and his manager, and want to straighten out the money situation there to ensure Kimi completes the season in the Lotus. It sounds like a win/win situation for the team, and hopefully for Hulkenberg as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
That would be great if they secure Hulkenberg for 2014. If they give him a top car then we will see what he's made of. If we don't have an idea already
What are your opinions on the potential for Magnussen to replace Perez for 2014?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/24844304
Seems a little harsh on Perez, but I suppose its good to see McLaren acting as its obvious Perez is under-performing. Magnussen's father Jan I remember well at Stewart and it was always said he never lived up to his potential, but his son certainly looks like he could. Should McLaren take a punt on the kid or give Perez one more season to prove himself?
I think he's better than his dad - won in everything he's raced. It would be interesting but I think it's a tad harsh on Perez who has been wildly inconsistent (which Mac must have known anyway from his Sauber days) but at times matched JB.
McLaren are in the same sort of position with Perez as they were with say Stefan Johansson in 1987. Johansson showed a lot of potential and was scoring second places with a fragile Ferarri, was signed for McLaren and although scored a few podiums, never broke through with the potential that he promised.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
The MP4-28 is an entirely lacklustre car when compared to the field but Button has still been finding points in it far more regularly than Perez has. He's actually managed to achieve the bizarre and do worse in the McLaren in '13 than the Sauber he had in '12.
I could be wrong about this but I think that Button, Perez and Chilton are the only three drivers not to have retired in 2013. If the tow McLaren drivers had shown a little more anger, maybe they'd have been given better equipment. So far I've only really seen the red mist come down in Perez' helmet once and in F1, that really isn't good enough.
It could be possible that the 2012 Sauber was an easier car to drive than the 2013 Macca. Let's face it, besides a few good stints in a few races, the Maccas have been nowhere this season :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I seem to recall in one of the recent races Button retired very near the end of the race, so wouldn't have taken the chequered flag but would have been classified as a finisher. I could equally easily be wrong about that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I think with where McLaren are this season and with JB around, it makes little difference between Perez and Magnussen. In a way while expectations are a bit lower I would take a punt and give the new guy a go and see if you could unearth the next big thing. Which Perez is not, but Magnussen just might be. Probably not but you never know until he races in F1. Why not take the chance with Honda coming in for 2015
It dawned on me earlier that if Kevin Magnussen gets a drive with McLaren, he'll be the first driver in F1 where I remember his dad also racing in the same sport. I'm too young for the Hill's or the Rosberg's, so this will be my first step to being an older fan :eek: :)
Same here. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Wow. How do like being old Henners Old Boy. :p
I remember Keke at McLaren in the 1986 and this really is going to do my head in... Mansell, Rosberg and someone else... one particular GP had a moustached trio... which one was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Why does no-one keep those records for? Has there ever been a entire 'tash podium?
Addenda: The record for the most number of moustachioed points is 480 by Mansell. Let's see Alonso try to muck that one up.
Entirely agree. :skull:Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
I do feel old, although I should be able to remember both Nakajima's but I was a little too young when Satoru was racing in the sport to remember him. I only remember the top guys from around that time. I suppose between 1988 and 1992 I watched races but couldn't follow closely due to my age, but 1993 was a season I remember really taking a deeper interest. I went to my first race that your too. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
Heh. Nakajima is a common enough name; so I didn't realise that Kazuki was Satoru's son.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Satoru drove alongside Senna and then Piquet at Lotus; then alongside Alesi at Tyrell. I think Satoru might have carried some of the first onboard cameras in 1987.
I seem to remember that Jan Magnussen was supposed to be the next Senna. But yeah, I think this would be the first father/son that I have seen both of.
Makes me seem old. I'm still hoping that McLaren spot me when I'm at an 'arrive and drive' session at the local karting club.