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It is easy to be consistent when your car is much faster than that of your rivals. If he was really consistent he would have won pretty much every race of the past few seasons, because RB has been the fastest and best car in almost every race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari33
Have another one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
http://www.preparationh.com/sites/de...tment_Main.png
And keep it at hand, you'll need it a lot.
Except that you didn't get your facts right. The best car for most of last season was the McLaren. Had they not made every mistake in the book when it comes to strategy and pitstops, Vettel would've gotten nowhere near the title and Hamilton would have two by now. And besides, the best car doesn't mean an automatic win - Webber is living proof of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Still, to be truly great, Vettel needs to win races and the WDC in another team. Until that, it's always about Newey's car etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Alonso never won a title in anything but a Renault, Button never in anything but a Brawn, Lewis never in anything but a McLaren, Hakkinen never in anything but a Newey designed McLaren, Mansell never but in a Newey designed Williams, same for Hill and Villeneuve. And Schumacher never won a title in a car that wasn't designed by Rory Byrne. I suppose all of those aren't really that great then??Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
that really not a sound argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
pretty much every F1 great has won in dominant cars
with only 3 (greats that is) havign won their titles with 2 different manufacturers
Schumi and prost, and Piquet
aalthugh out of that list piquets feats seem the most impressive as his car was not always thebest
Yes the RBR is in a league of its own and vettel has won thanks to it. But shifting the bar for him makes no sense.
I don't think he is as good a driver as kimi, alonso and hamilton for sure. and his greatness will have an asterik next to it based on the sheer dominance of the RBR.
Except for his Mercedes title, most of Fangio's titles were in non-dominant cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
That's your opinion, but you have no facts to back it up. If the RB is in a league of his own, Webber must be the most useless chauffeur to disgrace F1 since Jean-Deniz Deletraz if his finishes compared to Vettel are any indication. Comparing drivers, who drive for different teams is a futile exercise to begin with. We can probably agree that Alonso and Kimi are top-notch drivers, but saying that they're head and shoulders above Vettel is devoid of fact. If you take this season - at times the Ferrari and the Merc were better than RB (Hungary, Barcelona), yet he still leads the championship and hasn't finished any lower than 4th. Saying that's the work of the car alone is ridiculous and makes you look like an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
On the subject of Hamilton v Rosberg I will say I think it's odd that Rosberg is supposedly beating Lewis seeing he is 8-3 down in qualifying and 43pts behind.
Though statistics can be misleading - just ask Michael Schumacher last year, who in the final 12 races beat Rosberg 47pts - 26pts, and this despite his "batteries being worn down towards the end" (i.e. getting tired of it all due to age).
Defending Vettel as superior seems pointless as well. What other top notch drivers has Vettel beaten in equal cars? We know Alonso has bettered several good drivers in equal cars, and that Lewis bettered him when at McLaren. Kimi was 50/50 at Ferrari but otherwise has done very well at both McLaren against their drivers and now at Lotus. Who of a high caliber has Vettel ever faced on equal terms..... Webber?Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
It sure is but one held by a lot of people. It's also one that Vettel is going to have to rebuke if he is every to truly be regarded as an all time great because he can keep winning championships in the best car if he wants and never be regarded as a great.Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
Maybe I do already take anger management lessons!!! You'd never know. I guarantee you though it doesn't make me lose sleep but the penalty was completely unfair. Anyway been over this many times on this forum so not going into it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
Looks like Lewis more than has the handle of Nico so far. As good as Lewis is I am surprised that he is so far ahead of Nico considering Nico's been settled with the team for a number of years now. Kudos to Lewis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Schumacher won races at Benetton and Ferrari, went to Ferrari to rebuild the team, Mansell won a lot of races in different cars, Button has won races at BAR, Brawn and Mclaren, Hamilton at Mclaren and now at Mercedes, the list goes on an on. Prost and Senna as well won races with different cars.
Hill and Villeneuve (the boy) were not great drivers.
To me Vettel's greatest race was the one he won in the rain for Toro Rosso, that was something really special, a lot different from dominating with a superior car.
I think you're going to see him at Ferrari pretty soon, just to prove a point.
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Red Bull was far better than McLaren last year. Pacewise too.
Red Bull was clearly the best car at Hungary. Only because Red Bull has fools as drivers did they not win that race. Barcelona is probably the only race this year where Red Bull was not fast enough to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Which was the fastest car that weekend. Even someone who sucked in rain like Bourdais was able to get 4th on grid with that car.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Heikki should have won it. He had the faster car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I guess "Jense" dissed "The Boss" :D
However The Boss was philosophical after the race at SpaQuote:
"I think Fernando's the one to look at to challenge Sebastian. He seems happy with the car and they're making progress."
"I think Ferrari will be strong at Monza [the next race on 8 September] and have a very good chance of winning there. They're stronger now than this time last year and could do very well. The championship's not over."
"It's very difficult for anyone, especially Mercedes. It was cool conditions [in Belgium] which should have suited them."
:angel:Quote:
"I don't feel it is a kick in the balls,"
Jenson Button: Fernando Alonso the best man to catch Sebastian Vettel | Sport | The Guardian