Back to topic, please. This is not where to be decided who´s best of Ogier or Sordo!
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Back to topic, please. This is not where to be decided who´s best of Ogier or Sordo!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Right you back on topic:
Satans hora den djavla engesman Vill-icke-sson har forfarande inte ringt.....Vituuuun!!!!
As Per can affirm, I politely mentioned that I curiously have still not received the call to pack for Argentina..
More snooze at 0800
Vittu with a double T John. Now back to the topic :)
Looking even more official now - Sordo in a Fiesta in Argentina - Sordo with Ford in Argentina | Best of Rally Live
You're wrong. I'm not discussing if Sordo is better than Ogier. It's not my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I'm trying to show how good is the guy that probably will replace Jari-Matti Latvala in Argentina.
But i understand you.
Let's then discuss. Let's talk about...
I do not think that there is doubt that Sordo is a top rally driver... unfortunatelly his gravel skills never managed to evolve to match his tarmac skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Certainly the best choice for Ford for Argentina.
But the misconception that Citroen did everything they could to stop the driver from dethroning Loeb is star trek universe stuff... In Citroen team team orders are applied as in any other team when a driver has a comfortable lead in the championship.
And to stay on topic the comparison between Sordo and Solberg is going to be very interesting.
Some guys are learning very slowly. Or can not learn. It is not so unique in WRC, but very expensive to run them for nothing for many years :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Check Latvala's 'tarmac-history', he is doing full-seasons from 2004(2005?)
The basic problem with the WRC: too many 'gravel-boys' in work's cars, for long-long years without progress on tarmac, while the main threat is a complex guy, who is fast on every surface.
Here is the time to forget these gravel-only-drivers :)
Gerard Quinn confirms on his twitter, that Sordo will replace Latvala in Argentina.
Marc Martí will co-drive Salazar in his Mini instead of Carlos del Barrio.
From Prodrive facebook account
The Ford World Rally Team is confirming this morning that Dani Sordo will replace the injured Jari-Matti Latvala in the Fiesta WRC at the next round of the World Rally Championship in Argentina next week. Latvala was forced to withdraw after breaking his left collarbone in a cross-country ski-ing accident while training in northern Finland last week. We have given permission for Dani to compete in the Ford in order to help M-Sport out of this difficult situation and to give fans the chance to see Dani in action once more. It will of course give Dani more valuable competitive driving time as he prepares for his IRC round in Corsica next month in the Drive-Pro MINI S2000 and then the Prodrive WRC Team’s next event in New Zealand in June. Carlos del Barrio was originally due to co-drive Eliseo Salazar in Argentina in his debut in the MINI WRC; Marc Marti will now take his place (subject to FIA approval). Dani Sordo said: “I am really excited about going to Argentina. When you are a rally driver all you want to do is to compete, so I am really happy that Prodrive has given me the chance to drive the Ford. I was second the last time I competed in Argentina, but as I will be learning a new car, it will be difficult to repeat this.” Ford World Rally Team director Malcolm Wilson said: “We’re fortunate to have a driver of Dani’s calibre to join us. His experience at Rally Argentina was a key factor in the decision, having started the rally five times and finishing second in 2009. The agreement is for one rally only, and I would like to thank the management of Dani’s current team [Prodrive], who were extremely gracious in helping us in such challenging circumstances.” Dani and Carlos will join regular pairing Petter Solberg and Chris Patterson for the four-day Rally Argentina, which will be based in Carlos Paz on 26 - 29 April. As we did not wish to profit from Ford’s misfortune, Prodrive is not taking any fee for Dani and Carlos, but we have proposed that M Sport makes significant donations to various nominated charities.
also on M-sport website
Ford recruits Sordo to replace injured Latvala at Rally Argentina
If today there isn't any official communicate, it will be Sordo testing the car at Cumbria on the two following days. Today I believe he and Del Barrio are doing everything related to the official clothes, helmets, seats, etc.
The support of Ford Spain was basic for the deal.
Well, there'll be no more speculations. Some sources say that they're already testing today. Now, thanks Xsara Fan for your information, we can say Sordo is the first who has driven three WRC 1.6 (let's hope the fourth next year :D ).
It's strange that Prodrive says that they asked M-Sport to give donations to various nominated charities instead taking any fee (The end is near!).
Sure, very polite.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
I knew there is something hidden, Malcolm can't be so generous :D even if his son doesnt spend his money anymore :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kielder
It would be strange if they were random charities. Nominated means money laundering and nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kielder
It's just one thing to do, Young Østberg. Just trash the spaniard!
Please Dani, something different this time... :p :
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
Strange that Wilson refers to Prodrive as " Dani’s current team"? It should be just "Prodrive" or "Dani's team". And "significant" donation to "nominated" charities and Ford Spain's role? There's more to this situation than meets the eye.
It will be interesting to see how it goes.
Just of curiosity how much have you spended??Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertS
I think there were a couple of gravel rallies in 2009, one of them was Australia, where Sordo showed a good step forward on gravel, setting competitive times to Loeb. At that point I expected to see him repeat it, but that failed to materialize. I'll not speculate much why, but I note that Ogier was also showing impressive speed at that time. Sordo later seemed to go a little bit backwards, and it didn't seem logical. Though it may also be simply mental, from seeing he was challanged from within the team. Whatever the reason, I believe there is more speed to come from Sordo, at least in the fast gravel rallies.
Now you measure Dani with Petter,while we were talking the speed about Dani vs Loeb and Citroen sabotage at Danis car. Petter is not the benchmark.Loeb is the benchmark and as you can see you strugle to find a non tarmac event that he was faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Loeb has 68? wins Which is the percentage wins in snow instead of tarmac,gravel he participated?If you search you will see that is not a snow expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Ok now without sabotage he will win Loeb.Fiesta is prooven fast car at gravel at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
But Dani was.....your theory collapsed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
very right post!Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertS
Also we saw Ogier in a one off good asphalt pace,and at the next one again slow and setups problems.Same as Latvalas pace at asphalt/gravel at last rallies at last year.
What i want to say is that is not enough 1 or 2 rallies to make conclusions,specially for drivers that they had a bad past about speed,exits from roads etc.
I'm measuring Sordo in this rally with a driver that ends the rally in front. If i want to measure a teorically position at the ende of the rally, that must be with a driver that ends the rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
But let me explain you (one more explanation...) that i was measuring the "not so good driver" wich you say that Sordo is with the rest of the field, using a second level car in a kind of surface that was not tarmac (where you recognize he is fast).
So, trying to explain you more clearly: a "Not so good driver", in a surface where he is not so fast, with a second level car, ends near the best drivers, with the best cars on a surface where they are rally fast. This means a lot.
Let's end the discussion with two things:
If you want lessons about stopping foreigners perfomance at a french team with french drivers, you must read the whole story about Pedro Lamy and Le Mans 2011. One curiosity: Olivier Quesnel was the team manager.
If, in Argentina, Sordo will be as fast as Petter Solberg (Petter knows very well the fiesta and Sordo not), there's another evidence that something wrong with the spaniard situation at Citroen. Let's wait.
Do not overestimate the importance of snow. Usually only 1 event in the calendar(2 in 2007 and 5 tarmac). While we have 3-5 tarmac rallyes in every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
And one of the best performers in Sweden is Carlos Sainz! :)
that drivers that end the rally is NOT THE TOP. Our discussion was the Loeb vs Sordo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Novikov was 5 sec behind......theory collapsed again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Novikov....and Ostberg in front of him....Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Wasn t faster the French guy?You really waiting to support the spanish guy that was some minutes behind at first day at 90% of the rallies for 4 years?When Dani had the ''best'' xsara and the ''best'' c4 was way behind in speed from Fords.You forgot it?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Again your benchmark is Petter who is way slower from Loeb.Now you will be ok if he is equal with Petter?lololololololol Didn t we talked about Loeb vs Sordo?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Sordo will drive 3 days the Fiesta before Argentina.No sabotage because the team is not Citroen sport,so no excuses please before the rally.
No question, if somebody spend 8 years in WRC - like JML - and he can reach the tarmac-podium once only in his 8th year - this is a kind of disaster. Time & Money for nothing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
There are some serious problems with the learning. Mikko is nearly the same...
If there is something boring in the WRC that is not Loeb's dominance but the Finnish disaster on tarmac(except Mr.Makinen).
Sorry, i really doubt that will happen, but all the best for Dani, for sure he would deserve a worksseat for a whole season again!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
LOL....Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Why ? is Solberg as fast as Loeb ?
Excuse me, but you are a litle bit slower in terms of understanding things, no? I'm talking about basic things, not very complex things. I tried to end the discussion, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
What's your point of comparing directly Loeb with a top car and Sordo with a second level car? What would you expect? The driver of the worst car be faster than the best one driving the best car?
How can you say that Novikov was in front or would end in front? What a hell of calculations you made to write that Sordo teorically would end at 2 minutes behind the winner (or Loeb?!?). If in 7km lose 25 secs, then in 380km will lose X. The X is easy to calculate.
With Lamy's situation and facts, you didn't learned (or undesrtood) nothing. So, is a waste of time trying to explain something.
Form me, now the discussion is over, with the idea in mind that at Citroen happened some intriging things until 2010.
Depends. Was the privateer DS3 as good as the Loeb's DS3 in 2011?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Is the Fiesta as good as the DS3?
If you ask me if is Solberg as solid driving as Loeb, i answer NO. But in terms of speed don't have answer
You are right...Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Who is faster Wilson Jr ?? or Loeb ??
Good night.I ll wake you up after Argentina .Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
I dont think there is much difference between cars, Hirvonnen altough with not as many Km's with the Citroen isn't doing much better than last year pace wise.
Plus if the DS3 was so much better Novikov would run one this year no?!
Prodrive has commented the photos on FB: "Good luck in Argentina Dani - another podium in the WRC would be great".
They should have added: "But please, don't win that you sink us (more than we are)". :D
Wilson because before 3 years in a stage was faster.That he was slower at the rest 2.318 stages i dont care, as they cant serve my conspiracy theories.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
It also seems to me that the performance difference betwen Ford and Citroen has more to do with the pilots than with the cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
If Ford is able to win in Finland and Sweden it's because of the drivers and not the car.
And if Citroën is so good in tarmac rallyes is because Loeb is the best tarmac driver and Sordo is also a tarmac specialist.
I am curious to see how will Hirvonen perform this year in France, Spain or Germany. If he will improve a lot than I must admit that the citroen is a better tarmac car!
Can you remember for the comments of these results then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by jcatanho
juwra.com**|**Rallies - Corsica 2004 final results
juwra.com**|**Rallies - Catalunya 2004 final results
DS3 is apparently quite a lot more expensive than a Fiesta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
Please, could we get back to topics. Now!!!
I´m sick and tired of the discussion who´s fastest and in which car and etz...