Sutil will stand trial in a German court later this month

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Sorry , SGWilko . So concerned with getting the "SG" in there , apparently , I couldn't read .

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Fine, thank you.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I'm not saying you have Bagwan, but the list of your "speculation" designed to implicate Hamilton is extensive:

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You did say I accused him .

I've asked if he lied . It shows this in your quotes .
I don't believe that prior commitments to his team are the only reason he didn't show up .

We'll see soon what he brings to the appeal .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

You did say I accused him .

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No I did and have not. To repeat - I'm not saying you have ["accused" anyone] Bagwan, but the list of your "speculation" designed to implicate Hamilton is extensive and is there for all to see.

I used "speculation" to encompass the speculative conjecture that I have referred to before and which I find baffling or, in Knock-On's words, "a load of BS!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

No I did and have not. To repeat - I'm not saying you have ["accused" anyone] Bagwan, but the list of your "speculation" designed to implicate Hamilton is extensive and is there for all to see.

I used "speculation" to encompass the speculative conjecture that I have referred to before and which I find baffling or, in Knock-On's words, "a load of BS!"

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You're right .
I apologise for saying you used the word "accuse" .

Henners used the word , not you .


This "load of BS" is just speculation , you know .

You Hamilton supporters happen to side with the German courts .

I believe there's got to be something more to the story .

I am leaning to the belief that Sutils camp got out-lawyered but don't have any hard evidence to back it up.
I also would not be surprised if we read that the appeal has been dropped after the parties reached an out of court agreement. Unless:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I have read have mentioned figures in the "tens of millions", referring to what was offered to Lux as settlement before the trial

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Bags do you have a link to this assertion, I would very much like to read it (I’m not suggesting it is untrue)?
I read that Lux is giving the fine to charity. This strikes me as being a little odd, because this is a criminal case not a civil suit (maybe it's a hybrid?) :confused: , and the money goes "to the people".
I do know that there is a president in the US, as it is my understanding that there are awards given in criminal actions in the Commonwealth of Virginia USA, and not just for attorney fees.
I also question the propriety of only sending in a written statement.
Unless this was only a preliminary hearing, how can the prosecution cross-examine the witness?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

You're right .
I apologise for saying you used the word "accuse" .

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Appreciated. Thanks :cool: :)

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

This "load of BS" is just speculation , you know ...I believe there's got to be something more to the story .

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It is just speculation. Unfounded and unnecessary IMHO, but each to their own.

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Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz

I am leaning to the belief that Sutils camp got out-lawyered but don't have any hard evidence to back it up.
I also would not be surprised if we read that the appeal has been dropped after the parties reached an out of court agreement. Unless:
Bags do you have a link to this assertion, I would very much like to read it (I’m not suggesting it is untrue)?
I read that Lux is giving the fine to charity. This strikes me as being a little odd, because this is a criminal case not a civil suit (maybe it's a hybrid?) :confused: , and the money goes "to the people".
I do know that there is a president in the US, as it is my understanding that there are awards given in criminal actions in the Commonwealth of Virginia USA, and not just for attorney fees.
I also question the propriety of only sending in a written statement.
Unless this was only a preliminary hearing, how can the prosecution cross-examine the witness?

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This is from Sky news :
"Formula One driver Adrian Sutil has been handed an 18-month suspended sentence following a nightclub brawl with Renault chief executive Eric Lux.
The ex-Force India driver was charged with grievous bodily harm after a fight in Shanghai following Lewis Hamilton's victory at the China Grand Prix on April 17.

Lux required 24 stitches after being cut in the neck by broken glass during the confrontation.

29-year-old Sutil told Munich district court that he'd "tried everything" to settle the case, including an offer of "tens of millions" and a charitable donation which was turned down.

The German driver, who lost his seat at Force India in December and is still without a drive, claimed he had only intended on spilling his drink on the former Lotus part team owner and says the injuries were an "unintentional accident"."

Perhaps the issue of cross-examination was the reason that a written statement was not acceptable .

I don't think any "out of court settlement" could deal with the fact that the Sutils are of the belief that the original conviction and sentence were too harsh .
They'd have to go to court in an appeal to get things changed in any way , wouldn't they ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

This is from Sky news :
"Formula One driver Adrian Sutil has been handed an 18-month suspended sentence following a nightclub brawl with Renault chief executive Eric Lux.
The ex-Force India driver was charged with grievous bodily harm after a fight in Shanghai following Lewis Hamilton's victory at the China Grand Prix on April 17.

Lux required 24 stitches after being cut in the neck by broken glass during the confrontation.

29-year-old Sutil told Munich district court that he'd "tried everything" to settle the case, including an offer of "tens of millions" and a charitable donation which was turned down.

The German driver, who lost his seat at Force India in December and is still without a drive, claimed he had only intended on spilling his drink on the former Lotus part team owner and says the injuries were an "unintentional accident"."

Perhaps the issue of cross-examination was the reason that a written statement was not acceptable .

I don't think any "out of court settlement" could deal with the fact that the Sutils are of the belief that the original conviction and sentence were too harsh .
They'd have to go to court in an appeal to get things changed in any way , wouldn't they ?

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Thank you Sir.
I've been surfing through some more articles and they are largely based on the same AP account with the damning evidence being:

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Sutil claimed he had only intended on spilling his drink on the former Lotus part team owner and says the injuries were an "unintentional accident"."

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Lux must be a real tool because he has been quoted as saying in testimony that the reason he didn't accept Sutils apology was that Sutil didn't come to Luxemburg and apologies in person. I would think that upon getting the offer of tons of money, if the real reason for following through with the trial was that he wanted a personal apology, I doubt that AS would have refused, plus his charities would make good use of the funds. He probably could have gotten the personal apology and some big bucks for his charities. I understand why Hamilton didn't want to attend, because this Lux character sounds like he might get a kick out of character assassination. I actually feel badly for Hamilton because he is going to get his dick dragged through the dirt in the appeal over what sounds like something that he had no hand in. If the Sutils wanted him there that badly they should have subpoenaed him. If Hamilton (actually his Lawyers) managed to get permission not to attend, when it came time for the trial Sutil could have asked for, and gotten a continuance.
Stick a fork in me; I'm done speculating about this barbeque! :wave:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

How does that "directly contradict" Hamilton's assertion that he saw nothing :confused: :crazy:

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Don't jump the gun, just wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Man, this is a load of BS!

Sutil has his knickers in a twist about something and starts slandering Lewis. AFAIK, Lewis has not dignified a response or lowered himself to Sutil's level.

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I was wondering where were you hiding all this time, then you come up with this BS bomb! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ioan

I was wondering where were you hiding all this time, then you come up with this BS bomb! :laugh:

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As opposed to your reasoned contributions to the thread, ioan?

Again, I ask you: on what is your view based — an in-depth examination of the footage that the rest of us haven't seen, your personal recollection of the events of that night, or the same media coverage as we've all seen on which you have placed your own over-imaginative spin?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz

Thank you Sir.
I've been surfing through some more articles and they are largely based on the same AP account with the damning evidence being:
Lux must be a real tool because he has been quoted as saying in testimony that the reason he didn't accept Sutils apology was that Sutil didn't come to Luxemburg and apologies in person. I would think that upon getting the offer of tons of money, if the real reason for following through with the trial was that he wanted a personal apology, I doubt that AS would have refused, plus his charities would make good use of the funds. He probably could have gotten the personal apology and some big bucks for his charities. I understand why Hamilton didn't want to attend, because this Lux character sounds like he might get a kick out of character assassination. I actually feel badly for Hamilton because he is going to get his dick dragged through the dirt in the appeal over what sounds like something that he had no hand in. If the Sutils wanted him there that badly they should have subpoenaed him. If Hamilton (actually his Lawyers) managed to get permission not to attend, when it came time for the trial Sutil could have asked for, and gotten a continuance.
Stick a fork in me; I'm done speculating about this barbeque! :wave:

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Nice reasoning Traz man .
The charities now get $200k instead of tens of millions .
You must be right about Lux being a tool .
I hadn't really thought too much about his character with all that blood in the way .
There was a quote earlier somewhere in the thread about him reserving the right to pursue others involved .

That would fit with the idea of pressure for Lewis to stay out of it .
But , why would Hamilton fear Lux , if he had nothing to do with it ?
How could he pressure Lewis ?


You know what Mr. ?
This all fits rather nicely .
Originally , we heard Lewis would attend .
Then , we heard his lawyers got him excused .

The Sutils certainly sounded surprised , and hurt .
That fits with Lewis agreeing to help , and then getting advice from his team to duck out .

That fits with how lawyers talk to lawyers out of court , assuring witnesses are excused .
That fits with the railroad account that Adam Cooper gave of the trial disregarding CCTV footage that seemed to rather obviously to him to paint a different light on the incident .


Sutil describes Lux as someone who would only be happy if Adrian was completely destroyed .
He offered tens of millions , ended up paying out only $200k , but lost his job and his reputation .
Money was not the object .
I understand why , if this was the reason , Lewis would not want to testify , as he could become the next object of obsession for one so vindictive as Lux .
If it was the reason , though , I would also understand the Sutil's point of view .

Like a runaway train, there's no stopping Bagwan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Nice reasoning Traz man .
The charities now get $200k instead of tens of millions .
You must be right about Lux being a tool .
I hadn't really thought too much about his character with all that blood in the way .
There was a quote earlier somewhere in the thread about him reserving the right to pursue others involved .

That would fit with the idea of pressure for Lewis to stay out of it .
But , why would Hamilton fear Lux , if he had nothing to do with it ?
How could he pressure Lewis ?


You know what Mr. ?
This all fits rather nicely .
Originally , we heard Lewis would attend .
Then , we heard his lawyers got him excused .

The Sutils certainly sounded surprised , and hurt .
That fits with Lewis agreeing to help , and then getting advice from his team to duck out .

That fits with how lawyers talk to lawyers out of court , assuring witnesses are excused .
That fits with the railroad account that Adam Cooper gave of the trial disregarding CCTV footage that seemed to rather obviously to him to paint a different light on the incident .


Sutil describes Lux as someone who would only be happy if Adrian was completely destroyed .
He offered tens of millions , ended up paying out only $200k , but lost his job and his reputation .
Money was not the object .
I understand why , if this was the reason , Lewis would not want to testify , as he could become the next object of obsession for one so vindictive as Lux .
If it was the reason , though , I would also understand the Sutil's point of view .

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Why, I mean, seriously WHY, if you are sure you have a good case, would you offer tens of millions to settle out of court? That is bizarre at best.

The Hamilton thing, as far as I read it, is a smokescreen, put out there by the 'innocent' Sutils to deflect attention and to try and salvage a career that is going down the pan quicker than a Richard III.

If you were told that, the case could be settled by a personal face to face apology, what would you do. Options are;

Fork out tens of millions in the hope of an out of court settlement

or

Go and apologise?

Tough one that, init.....

Maybe Adrian has something to hide that Lux knows about, and this is what sparked the altercation in the first place. Who knows. It certainly is not, Prima Facie, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Like a runaway train, there's no stopping Bagwan.

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Don't stop him now, he's having such a good time - he's having a ball........ ;)

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Don't stop him now, he's having such a good time - he's having a ball........ ;)

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My German Shepherd has this thick bit of rope tied to a tree that he loves grabbing in his mouth and furiously tugging on. Sometimes I'm sure he's going to rip his teeth out or break his neck because of the ferocity he goes at it. He has no reason to believe he's ever going to win this tug of war but against all the evidence, refuses to accept facts and keeps forlornly going at it with all the vigour he can manage.

And they say German Shepherds are intelligent? He has the same brains as some on here. I feel cheated :)

1 point it was 3 weeks before the first report to make any paper so no one can know for sure what did happen

it looks like it may have been in the room of the last post i made

Leaked: F1 driver Adrian Sutil was in bar fight at M1NT following Shanghai GP - Shanghaiist

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johnnychangwalkerhttp://mediacdn.disqus.com/132944475.../moderator.png9 months agohttp://shanghaiist.com/2011/05/12/f1...bar_fight.php#
... there are no private rooms in M1NT, only VIP upstairs where they certainly would not be. fail story.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Why, I mean, seriously WHY, if you are sure you have a good case, would you offer tens of millions to settle out of court? That is bizarre at best.

The Hamilton thing, as far as I read it, is a smokescreen, put out there by the 'innocent' Sutils to deflect attention and to try and salvage a career that is going down the pan quicker than a Richard III.

If you were told that, the case could be settled by a personal face to face apology, what would you do. Options are;

Fork out tens of millions in the hope of an out of court settlement

or

Go and apologise?

Tough one that, init.....

Maybe Adrian has something to hide that Lux knows about, and this is what sparked the altercation in the first place. Who knows. It certainly is not, Prima Facie, plain and simple.

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Adrian has never denied having caused injury to Lux .
He apparently tried to pay recompence to Lux before the trial , with the money said to be going to charity .

Attempts were made to apologise over the phone , but the calls were not answered , in the literal sense .

Hard to know one isn't making a good enough effort if one isn't told this is the case .


His line of defence is that it was an accident , not that he didn't do it .
An out of court settlement in a case such as this is not bizarre at all , but rather , quite commonplace .


If Lux was not taking his calls , it would also be rather hard to arrange any kind of meeting in which to apologise , wouldn't it ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Adrian has never denied having caused injury to Lux .
He apparently tried to pay recompence to Lux before the trial , with the money said to be going to charity .

Attempts were made to apologise over the phone , but the calls were not answered , in the literal sense .

Hard to know one isn't making a good enough effort if one isn't told this is the case .


His line of defence is that it was an accident , not that he didn't do it .
An out of court settlement in a case such as this is not bizarre at all , but rather , quite commonplace .


If Lux was not taking his calls , it would also be rather hard to arrange any kind of meeting in which to apologise , wouldn't it ?

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Lux then was being deliberately evasive? To what aim. Vindictiveness - dragging it through the courts - seems to be his aim. Gives a hint of the character then, and quite understandable then that Hamilton's management have advised he leave well alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Lux then was being deliberately evasive? To what aim. Vindictiveness - dragging it through the courts - seems to be his aim. Gives a hint of the character then, and quite understandable then that Hamilton's management have advised he leave well alone.

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Here's an exerpt from a Speed tv article :
"udge Christiane Thiemann read out a mail from Sutil to Lux dated last May, in which the driver offered to support Lux's African charity project.

Sutil said Lux's counter-offers for an out-of-court settlement were "comical", for a "very, very high amount" of money and involving voluntarily sitting out several races.

"He wanted to destroy me, to make sure I'm in jail for years," said Sutil.

"I did everything to try to settle this." "



Seems pretty plausable , doesn't it Wilko(I got it right this time ...your name I mean) ?

So , you support this area of speculation then ?
Careful , you could get called a "Gambini" , supporting a "German shepherd" like me .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Adrian has never denied having caused injury to Lux .
He apparently tried to pay recompence to Lux before the trial , with the money said to be going to charity .

Attempts were made to apologise over the phone , but the calls were not answered , in the literal sense .

Hard to know one isn't making a good enough effort if one isn't told this is the case .


His line of defence is that it was an accident , not that he didn't do it .
An out of court settlement in a case such as this is not bizarre at all , but rather , quite commonplace .


If Lux was not taking his calls , it would also be rather hard to arrange any kind of meeting in which to apologise , wouldn't it ?

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Lux wanted to make this a big headline story, that's all it is to it.
Let's hope that Sutil's appeal will clear things up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Here's an exerpt from a Speed tv article :
"udge Christiane Thiemann read out a mail from Sutil to Lux dated last May, in which the driver offered to support Lux's African charity project.

Sutil said Lux's counter-offers for an out-of-court settlement were "comical", for a "very, very high amount" of money and involving voluntarily sitting out several races.

"He wanted to destroy me, to make sure I'm in jail for years," said Sutil.

"I did everything to try to settle this." "



Seems pretty plausable , doesn't it Wilko(I got it right this time ...your name I mean) ?

So , you support this area of speculation then ?
Careful , you could get called a "Gambini" , supporting a "German shepherd" like me .

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:up:

Funny how people around here slate an F1 driver who, in the worst case, made a mistake while supporting a character like Lux. Whatever happened to common sense?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Lux then was being deliberately evasive? To what aim. Vindictiveness - dragging it through the courts - seems to be his aim. Gives a hint of the character then, and quite understandable then that Hamilton's management have advised he leave well alone.

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Making headlines is what Lux wanted, unless he is really a vindictive sob. Anyway not someone you would like to have to do with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

As opposed to your reasoned contributions to the thread, ioan?

Again, I ask you: on what is your view based — an in-depth examination of the footage that the rest of us haven't seen, your personal recollection of the events of that night, or the same media coverage as we've all seen on which you have placed your own over-imaginative spin?

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Not really worth an answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Not really worth an answer.

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Why? It is an entirely genuine question. You seem to be suggesting a level of knowledge on the matter that superior to almost everyone else's here. Why don't you just say what this knowledge is based on?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Here's an exerpt from a Speed tv article :
"udge Christiane Thiemann read out a mail from Sutil to Lux dated last May, in which the driver offered to support Lux's African charity project.

Sutil said Lux's counter-offers for an out-of-court settlement were "comical", for a "very, very high amount" of money and involving voluntarily sitting out several races.

"He wanted to destroy me, to make sure I'm in jail for years," said Sutil.

"I did everything to try to settle this." "



Seems pretty plausable , doesn't it Wilko(I got it right this time ...your name I mean) ?

So , you support this area of speculation then ?
Careful , you could get called a "Gambini" , supporting a "German shepherd" like me .

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It is the Hamilton deliberately misleading the court bit I take issue with in your earlier comments Baggy. (Please chastise me if you prefer not the Baggy moniker)

And yes - a 10/10 for you sir on the Wilko front. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

It is the Hamilton deliberately misleading the court bit I take issue with in your earlier comments Baggy. (Please chastise me if you prefer not the Baggy moniker)

And yes - a 10/10 for you sir on the Wilko front. :)

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Ah , come on .
Admit it .
I caught you agreeing with me there .

Hey , everybody !
Wilko agreed with some of my speculation !

Just make sure you use the three letters "bag" in whatever you call me , so I know it's me you're calling .

Knocky is much too cryptic when he's alluding to my "german shepherd"ness .

(i don't want to bag you) but i too would like to know the truth and nothing but the truth

May I suggest that you consult the oracle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x-nQ-vPw5k ;)

I just noticed something that maybe somebody could clear up for me .

Now , it's not surprising that Adrian would appeal .
But , is the lodging of the appeal from the presecution side just a normal matter of course ?

They asked for $300k and 21 months the first time , and got $200k and 18 months .
If they are appealing , are they asking for the original sentence for which they applied ?

If so , they have 3 months , and $100k to gain from this .

Is $100k going to cover the legal fees here ?


I would have thought that , with the appeal being lodged from Sutil's side , it would have been one of the spoils of victory to get the legal fees paid for by the appealing side . With a prosecution appeal lodged as well , it seems not to be the case .

Anybody out there who might clear this up ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I just noticed something that maybe somebody could clear up for me .

Now , it's not surprising that Adrian would appeal .
But , is the lodging of the appeal from the presecution side just a normal matter of course ?

They asked for $300k and 21 months the first time , and got $200k and 18 months .
If they are appealing , are they asking for the original sentence for which they applied ?

If so , they have 3 months , and $100k to gain from this .

Is $100k going to cover the legal fees here ?


I would have thought that , with the appeal being lodged from Sutil's side , it would have been one of the spoils of victory to get the legal fees paid for by the appealing side . With a prosecution appeal lodged as well , it seems not to be the case .

Anybody out there who might clear this up ?

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Don't know if lux is going for the balance of the original complaint only. Remember he has reserved the right to charge other parties than just Sutil. It is really just legal posturing, but he implies that someone else may be complicit originally, and this verdict does not preclude, that any number of people from Hamilton’s bodyguard to the Restuarant where they ate. who knows who will be on his hit list. We have to wait for the court case. It is possible he will go for legal fees, but that usually only happen in civil matters. I don't think Sutil was ordered to pay Luxs' legal fees with the original verdict, and the verdict is what is being appealed by Lux, and Sutil.
Lux will have to file a separate complaint if others are to reveal a likelihood of complicity.
I just hope “Stupil” doesn’t get out-lawyered again as bad as last time. :s mokin:

Lux reserving the right to take action against others besides Sutil sounds a bit more than ominous , and makes one wonder if there was any of this thought in Lewis's decision process .
One could imagine that Lewis , having been sat beside Adrian when the brou-ha-ha began , might feel he is first in line for a suit .

But , if the CCTV footage shows Lewis to not have been involved , what would be the issue with attending ?

And , isn't this getting pretty close to blackmail ?


The aspect of the appeal dealing with the sentence , itself , is based upon the fact it didn't jive with the prosecution's original ask , isn't it ?
Unless further evidence became available , that radically changed the game , came into view , they would merely be asking for the original sentence requested , wouldn't they ?


I read one rumour that had a bimbo in the Lux party spilling a drink on Sutil setting the whole thing in motion .
I would guess drivers have better "pull" than team owners , and she was not up to snuff for the young Sutil , with him uttering something off-colour , as his his suit soaked up the drink like Shannon soaks Gene .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

what would be the issue with attending ?

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There is NO issue with attending. Where has this 'attending issue' sprung from.

Lewis was not available due to previously arranged commitments. You know, the stuff F1 drivers get bogged down with - car launches and such like.

His manager, lawyer whoever, contacted the court to this effect. As the trial still continued as planned, Lewis's pre-arranged plans not having magically disintegrated in a 'piff paff puff' moment, was still unavailable.

Now, what is honestly so hard to grasp about that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I read one rumour

---

That's it - you've cracked it - it must be true.......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

That's it - you've cracked it - it must be true.......

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I heard a rumor that this was all a bad dream concocted by Bernie using hypnotism, to create mass F-1 hysteria, I mean attention.

Which came first , the date announced for the launch , or the date announced for the trial ?

Just wondering , as it would point to McLaren helping give him reason to not attend if it set the launch after the trial date was set .
I have no idea what that would mean for them .

If the launch date was set before the trial date , then one must wonder why they couldn't move the launch up or back a day or two , especially as the monday was for filming only for Lewis .



By the way , the rumour about the bimbo is just that , a rumour .

It might fit though .

I said it before and I'll say it again. If Sutil's defense had 1/2 of a brain they would have had Hamilton formally served with a subpoena for the first case. Then he would either have to attend, or his representation could try to arrange to have the trial date moved. I think that may not be very easy considering this is a trial with people who saw or heard things that could be attendance that are spread out all over the freaken' planet! It doesn't matter to the court if it is a work day for you. If you receive a formal summons with the proper amount of advanced notice (and your lawyers can't make any other arrangements) you either be there or be in contempt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

It might fit though .

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If you apply enough force, a square peg will fit a round hole.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz

I said it before and I'll say it again. If Sutil's defense had 1/2 of a brain they would have had Hamilton formally served with a subpoena for the first case. Then he would either have to attend, or his representation could try to arrange to have the trial date moved. I think that may not be very easy considering this is a trial with people who saw or heard things that could be attendance that are spread out all over the freaken' planet! It doesn't matter to the court if it is a work day for you. If you receive a formal summons with the proper amount of advanced notice (and your lawyers can't make any other arrangements) you either be there or be in contempt.

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I get all that , but Hamilton must have recieved something from the court or lawyers from either side , as he was apparently required to be excused , given that he was excused .
He was on the original list of witnesses apparently . Why try to submit a statement if he wasn't ?

Maybe they did , simply , screw up .
It would seem pretty odd , though .
It would be all over the news if they suddenly changed law firms , wouldn't it ?

Suppose , though , that the judge saw Lewis's testimony , stating that he saw nothing , at the same time as being told of his need to be at work .
It would explain the judge not seeing the testimony as being useful to the case , and excusing the lad .

Your honour , may I have permission to treat the witness as hostile ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

If you apply enough force, a square peg will fit a round hole.....

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In the 70's I had a press that you could put an egg into , to make it square .