Here's some new info on the Lotus engine. Pretty good stuff!!
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Lotus IndyCar Engine Making Progress
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Here's some new info on the Lotus engine. Pretty good stuff!!
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Lotus IndyCar Engine Making Progress
For many of those who forget a time when we had new cars every year, teething issues are normal. I can't think of any new car that was "perfect" right out fo the box.
The new car is indeed quicker on road courses, quicker on short ovals, and"currently" slower at Indy. Why
The car is a compromise, as it has to run on short and longoval, street and road courses. The old car was designed specifically for ovals, so it has an inherent advantage there to start. The lower shock/dampers in the front, location of the coolers, etc, were all geared for oval racing, and later the car adapted to road racing
With two new engines now running, and another coming in January, what we have here is exactly what we had back in the good ‘ole CART days, when new cars and four engine manufacturers played the game of “show me yours and I’ll show you mine, maybe” in testing. Back then there was a balance of trying to set the time of the day (per the marketing department) and sand bagging (from the engineering department). Now, more than ever with the series monitoring engine performance, there seems to be quite a bit of the latter going on. No one wants to show their hand early.
There are 28-29 solid entries for next year(thanks again for Mr. Bernard) and that is great news for all. There is a TON of time before the first race to get the little bits sorted. Things will be very good for the start of the season.
But.. but... but... the sky is falling. The sky is falling.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye
...big ol' grin...
Gary
I canQuote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...S-LRP-2006.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...1_Spa_2010.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cropped%29.jpg
Actually I can go on and on
Actually, you can't go on and on.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
First, none of these are an Indycar/Champcar or car from CART so I did not work on any of these. But, I know some people who did!
Do you think each of these cars went well "right from the start" of testing? If you think so, you're wrong.
The first Audi pictured, had a ton or issues with drive shafts, and balance issues. These issues led to Audi instigating a TON of money in development of future chassis. Where is Audi now? Working on the 2013 car. By the time the 2013 car hits the track for the first time, it would have spent thousands of hours on the chassis and engine dyno. Most the issues crop up then. They also found the back end was very hard to work on, and they eventually went with a modular design, which helped the team work on the car.
The R15, probably was as close to perfect once it hit the track, but again it was due to the many hours of testing on the chassis/engine dyno. The current chassis/engine/transmission dynos put the car through the same motion and forces they will see on the track, and has replaced traditional on track testing in the early stages of development. BTW, the Audi's have always been my favorites!
The Puegout pictured, suffered from cooling issues, weight balance issues which degraded front braking. Again, the car suffered from a lot of reliability issues...in testing. And, while it was quick out the box, it could only manage a minimal amount of laps before having to come in and cool off. Not ideal for endurance racing.
And finally, the last car. Ask Rocky the trials and tribulations they had with this car in testing. Several suspension failures, I believe due to an error in their FEA modeling. The car also had some interesting aero balance issues that needed sorting.
To say each of these were "perfect" right out of the box, is false. The current 2012 Indycar, did not go through a lot of dyno testing or aero testing becuase of the test program that had been put in place, and to reduce costs. Lets see where the car is in March and May, before we cry foul!
ee- good post and good points - while I am disappointed about the problems with the new car, you are right.... I think Anthony was more referring to the "new car every season" thing rather than the "good out of the box" - but I am not sure....
Agreed.....I believe these guys know how to address whatever problems may arise. I'm just sayin', get it done guys!! Make the drivers have to use their talents!!Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Engine situation as of November 17: each manufacturer has four teams under contracts.
Honda: Chip Ganassi Racing, Sam Schmidt Motorsports, A.J. Foyt Racing, Rahal Letterman Lanigan
Chevrolet: Team Penske, Andretti Autosport, KV Racing Technology, Panther Racing
Lotus: Bryan Herta Autosport, HVM Racing, Dreyer & Reinbold Racing, Michael Shank Racing
Other than those, Newman/Haas Racing is rumored with Honda, Dale Coyne Racing with Chevy and Conquest Racing with Lotus.
What about Ed Carpenter Racing, Sarah Fisher Racing and Dragon Racing?
New news from Lotus
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...eams-announced
2012 Lotus Engine Update - YouTube
:)
Here's the uncut footage from the Lotus area of the LA Auto Show!
2011 LA Auto Show: Lotus Makes 2012 Indy Car Announcements - YouTube
Actually when Swift cars were being built, they won the first time out in all categories, CART, F-Atlantic, and FFord. Maybe IC should have contacted them to get the company out of mothballs and build a decent, well-engineered single-seater.
Swift had a proposal for the new IndycarQuote:
Originally Posted by booger
[img]http://api.ning.com/files/HweFwIBQDuYaVJBJCFrumJ1o3yAOL4pp5TXUJZ6OmR1r59ZZxP bq2pGumW7*1raW5xKlg0-JLYeWAjPflMYGHYgfRmSP0XEn/Swift2012Cars.jpg[/img]
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QRstYe4Q5V...nI/s1600/1.PNG
Actually the had various concepts
http://pressdog.typepad.com/files/sw...-feb2010-1.pdf
I preferred every one of Swift's designs to Dallara's. I also liked the "Swiftlights" system for displaying throttle, fuel, and race position. I sometimes wonder who paid off who to keep Dallara the chassis of choice.
I am not uch of a conspiracy sort of person - but I have to agree - Dallara was the weakest of the concepts... i think their agreeing to produce in Indy might have done the trick....
The new car accomplishes absolutely nothing, and will likely only compound issues that already exist, those being that the current car is boring, slow and uninspiring.
If you want to stir the imaginations and interests of fans around the world it will take something revolutionary.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../X1_Carbon.jpg
Nobody has raved about the new car. ABSOLUTELY NOBODY! Not Dan Wheldon, not Tony Kanaan, not Dario, not Power, not a single fan, nobody is raving about it and we are in a time that we need a car that people rave about. The DW12 is just another boring car in a long line of boring cars and how the hell does the series expect fans to get excited about it or the racing when they can't even get their own drivers excited about it? The answer is, you can't!!!
ok, I haven't seen that picture before - is it a real car or a CGI?? Also, I agree Loneranger - and the picture you are showing is pretty easy to get excited about - even thought i am not a canopy fan - this thing rocks,,,, now - would it work - is the aero practical or just cool looking??
That car is simply F'en cool looking.... Line up 33 of those going 240 at the speedway and you have a platform to build upon
Least they didn't choose the Delta Wing...
you know, it just occurred to me - NASCAR might have the right idea since 240 etc. keeps coming up (and if they ever went to this red bull car I think it would be the equivalent of say "boys have at it" from a speed point of view)... roof flaps or something similar that deploys if a car gets airborne to push the sucker back down..... would probably have to be some sort of electro-mechanical thing (combine the roof flap with DRS??)with a ton of sensors and what not, but might be plausible.....
Right about now I'm thinking they wish they hadQuote:
Originally Posted by jwhite9185
at least the Delta wing had a clear purpose and design direction.... It may not have been the final solution as it was presented, but it was a bold step forward as opposed to what appears to be a blind stumble (although I am sure this car will work fine in the end, it is just the evolution of a formula that reached its zenith almost 20 years ago.........
What the series needs is this:
http://rawautos.com/wp-content/uploa...1298576388.jpg
What we continue to be given is this:
http://besttopdesign.com/wp-content/...tek-Yellow.jpg
Marshall Pruitt's article on the new car is up at speed - very interesting read.... I'll re-read later for more detail - but it sounds like Dallara more or less messed up the basic concept and more than a few people suspected it going in.... Also sounds like Dallara might have been overly optimistic on the requests it made of vendor supplied parts.....
My gut feeling is that they are going to make it work for the year with band-aids, the numbers will be ok but nobody is ever going to be comfortable with the car, and this car will be short lived - maybe one or two seasons at most - while he does not out and out say it - it just sounds like this car has some fundamental problems that might not be practically fixable in the most ideal sense of the word....
So, it sounds like the ICONIC panel really was just smoke and mirrors after all.... nobody really was watching the development of the car all that well....
The core of the sport is just too - something - they don't seem to listen to much of anyone when it gets down to it and have not for years - even generations.....
Here is an article by Pruett detailing the problems with the new car. The problems are significant and they seem to be trying to solve them without spending more money. F1 drivers say they can usually tell right out of the box if a new car has potential or is a dog. I think I hear the DW12 barking.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...lopment-issues
From the PS3 game Gran Turismo 5. Basically Adrian Newey was given a blank canvas and told to come up with his dream car. This is the result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneranger
Red Bull X2010 Prototype Full Reveal - News - gran-turismo.com
it is interesting that the rear weight bias it a real problem - probably means the Delta wing would have been a nightmare..... sounds like it has a bit of a pendulum effect in the turns at Indy....
Bruce Ashmore's comments on the bidding process in Gordon Kirby's recent article. Makes for some interesting reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by champcarray
http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no310.html
"We lost the bid because the winner put in a business plan, not a plan for the car. It was a building on Main Street in Speedway and a business plan for the build and supply of all the cars but nothing for the design of the car. The rest of us believed we were putting in a plan for the design of a car and that the winner would be the best design."
The basic problem seems to be does anyone know how the tender process worked for the new car? The names I hear bandied about - Dallara, Lola etc never excited me. How about asking the likes of Newey, or McLaren Automotive to sumbit a concept? Did it even happen or was the entire process skewed towards Dallara doing?
And McLaren for example does not have such capability ;) But .. come on, in the whole USA they were unable to find at least one manufacturer to develop and produce an open wheel racing chassis ... for the north American equivalent of Formula 1 ??? How that sounds to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by "
IndyCar is no way near to being an equivalent to F1.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan-veteran
In F1 teams are constantly developing, modifying and building new parts. Dallara just needed to crank out one design and replacement parts. Lola, Swift and Panoz could do the same or quickly get up to speed to do the same. Remember that part of the deal was for Dallara to set up a production facility in Indy.
It does have the potential capacity to do it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan-veteran
But why does it have to be US-based? Surely the success of a series should based on getting the best possible base car to begin with, to create a competitive and attractive sreries for teams, sponsors and fans. The whole thing smacks of doing it on the cheap and praying it all works out for the best.
Dixon and Briscoe test the new car at California
The Voice of The Fan: FVP: Scott Dixon And Ryan Briscoe Test New Indycar At California
No speeds/times!!??!!??
Still talking about shifting weight forward....that sounds like a fundamental chassis flaw that could only be reversed with so major changes
Time to "Panoz" (LMS car) it and put the engine in the front!! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
Seriously, they have moved the driver back so far in the name of safety (not complaining - just observing) - that perhaps the proper layout of oval racing is once again front engine - that would allow them to properly protect the rear wheels without major concern for weight. It might also both look and function better in term of providing an opportunity for the front wheels to be protected since you would need bulkier bodywork to enclose the engine etc....
I wonder how long before the team owners are crying to ALLOW new bodywork this year??? :-)
Because protectionists will pay extra for that sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
Because Indy gets a lucrative Tax break for the state of Indiana and one of the rules was to create manufacturing jobs. Indy also lobbied to get massive tax breaks for teams to base themselves in Indy. Of course they make money by renting out the shops to the teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
Crony Capitalism is alive and well in Motorsports.
Two words- EXCHANGE RATE. Same reason Champcar went with Panoz.. That was a major consideration when choosing not only who got the contract, but WHERE it was built. Exchange rate fluctuations have always affected the cost of buying race cars..and replacement parts. It was also a deliberate effort of a Non government entity to create jobs and stimulate the local Indiana economy. Lola wasn't going to open up a new shop and Swift has their production in California and when asked, were unwilling to relocate. The Chioce of Dallara may be biting them in the ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
Swift absolutely could have designed and built car, and I venture to say better looking one at that. I don't recall PAnoz entering the process, but they have their business issues we've all heard about.