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But isn't the fix based on the assumption that we (in the west) know what is right for the region, and as long as that remains the case there will continue to be resistance and an incompatability between our view and the history, traditions & reality of the Middle East?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Gonna answer my question or still rant on insulting those who sacrificed to give you that right?Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
He did? When ? Where?Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Show me where he ordered the killing of Muslims anywhere.
You missed his post 9/11 speech did you?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
"Leaving it alone" stopped being an option when terrorists who were knowingly allowed to operate in Afghanistan by it's government flew two jets into the World Trade Center. At that moment their business became our business.
Likewise, it is not just our business, but the entire civilized world's business if a country and it's people want to live in the 17th century because in this day of apocalyptic weaponry the free, civilized world has no obligation to live in the shadow of people who want to live in the 17th century yet seek access to world ending nuclear weapons.
"Leaving it alone" is what happened in Germany in WWII. In Rwanda in 1994. And in Kosovo in 1998. We do not have the luxury of looking the other way.
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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Why don't you go and help the Amish to pull themselves out of the 17th century first. They are much closer to you and much fewer, so it'd be cheaper. An added bonus is that they aren't armed, as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Here you go ant:
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additi...r-on-Terrorism
The declaration of war on terrorism was directly aimed at Muslims.
They have pitch forks, which are very dangerous and would require a full airstrike to ensure a safe entry for the ground troops to mop up the survivors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
What if the rest of the world wants to change the West because they feel we create too much pollution with our 21st century technologies. Are they not right in wanting to stop us then? Who decides who gets their way? The guy with the bigger bomb?Quote:
Originally Posted by downtowndeco
Your post is very one sided in the West's favour and f#ck the rest of the world and what they think, what they believe or how they want to live their lives.
They were merely retaliating, they weren't the aggressors. Go back 5 decades for the start of todays problems. They didn't have the resources you do, so they improvised with devastating effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by downtowndeco
Gotta fetch my kids...I will be back!
Sounds like you're a big fan of the Unibomber as well. Maybe you should go live with him in his shack in the mountains.
And let's get real. bin Laden flew two planes into the WTC to stop the US from pollution? Give me a break. That is your weakest argument to date,
I'm off to work. Have fun in Berkeley stewing about the death of your hero.
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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
As I said, the US can do no right by some.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
My God I got sucked back into this. I'm out, like I said I was gonna be because you just can't have a reasonable conversation with some people.
Man, you do not have a clue what we are talking about here. Totally clueless. But OK, as I have understood lots of americans are so selfcentered that they cannot even understand other cultures, religion and different point of view so this is something I have to live with :D Everything different is bad and deserves to be destroyed, other civilization must follow us and live like we do - in the 21st century. Nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by downtowndeco
Who is the one who feels everything that is different is bad?
"In February, 1998 Osama Bin Laden issued a statement titled "The World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders". This document states that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill all American citizens and the allies of America. According to the Jihad ideals it is okay to kill others if it is for the God; especially for the spreading of the Muslim faith (not all Muslims agree with the ideas of a Jihad)."
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Originally Posted by cali
Umm... no it wasn't 555. In fact, just the oposite:Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
"...I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It’s practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. ..."
I have read the reports that caused the Dem. to also believe he had them, that at the time he had no functioning one, and that he was still trying to get them. So what is your point, if you have one?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
You are not arguing, you rhetoric is empty.
Have a nice day.
Osama was the devil a vampire etc, an enemy of US,but not long ago he was a friend and an ally.So the question is what could fuel such hate on hiss part? My 2 cents,betrayal. Who here exactly knows what the Americans promised him? They used him as a pawn and threw him under the bus and they themselves created a monster.
So this was not the war on terror,but more like a 25 year old vendetta that has no end.
For sure Eki and you were not there and sound like childish fools.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Troll on troll boy, you and your brothers here must fetish love for sounding like foolish children.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
ROFLMAO--http://www.smilescollection.com/smiles/fool/sc_7286.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
Ja, ja Holder tries that scam and it exploded in his face.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Liar-liar pants on fire!Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Or perhaps he just hated the US? To assume that there is actually a reason behind all of this is to give Ozzy far too much credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSparrow
If one want to point fingers at the U.S. for any asinine action, we should not have gotten involved when the Soviet Union went into Afghanistan, that would have worked itself out.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSparrow
That was a stupid move on the U.S. part.
With respect, I don't think we know that for sure. It's like discounting the domino theory in South East Asia purely because Vietnam fell but Communism didn't go through Malaysia and into Indonesia. We have to accept that things happened the way they are and saying that they should have been done otherwise is just a guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
You claim to have "served" my country....Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
But where's the proof that you served?
Where's the proof that you're even American?
Show us the Birth Certificate!
Show us the Long Form Service Record!!!
Personally I think you're a clever 19 y.o. liberal boy trolling just trying to make the US Right Wing look like the brainless, thoughtless, insular meatheads that they appear to be.
Show us the proof!
This has what to do with the thread topic?Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
I thought attacking posters was against forum rules.
So how was the monster created?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
With all due respect I don't feel that tony needs to prove any of these claims to you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
For either of us to claim to know would be hilariously stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSparrow
To a degree I agree with you-- but one must remember the stalling of a Communist agendas was greatly influenced by the China-Russia conflict in 1969; the North Vietnamese-China conflict in 1979; and the North Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia which lasted till 1989.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
It is not that Communism was not a threat, but that rather than work together, they attacked each other.
Whereas to the the Soviets credit, the reason they went into Afghanistan was similar to Bush's they went in to prevent actions on their border that Carter allowed in Iran.
Some of their tactics while there were foolish and self-defeating.
According to Bush, it was OK to kill others if it was for "freedom"; especially for the spreading of "democracy" (not all believers in democracy agree with that stance).Quote:
Originally Posted by downtowndeco
And the lack of discipline prevalent within their armed forces did not help. This was not something that suddenly reared its head once the USSR ceased to exist and the successor states became strapped for cash — it was there all along. Personally, I feel that many continue to this day to concentrate on the numerical might of the Soviet bloc's military capability without considering what you might call the human factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Nah. If it was, Garry Walker and anthonyvop wouldn't be doing it, and you wouldn't call me a Troll Boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
I certainly don't think that what you're saying is impossible, but it's like cooking an egg and then saying that it would definitely have become a chicken :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
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Originally Posted by Daniel
I do not respect murderers, criminals and terrorists, He cliamed he "served" my country and accused my of "not serving".
I say he should prove he served the interests of the country, and wasn't another terrorist like his freind he bragged about.
Clearly---logically if one person attempts to rest their abililty to tell others off is based on some alleged service, that claim should be backed up.
And US interests were not served in killing and wounding thousands of Panamanians in a terror action to nab yet another American 'favorite son" who supposedly had gone bad. (like the Shah, Sadaam Hussein, the Mujahadeen etc etc.)
If you're not familiar with the US undeclared short war on Panama to grab one man which he claims he "was there", maybe look at this:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ar...omichitman.pdf
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David Harris, a contributing editor at the New York Times Mag-azine and the author of many
books, has an interesting observation. In his 2001 book Shooting the Moon, he states:
Of all the thousands of rulers, potentates, strongmen, juntas, and warlords the Americans have
dealt with in all corners of the world, General Manuel Antonio Noriega is the only one the
Americans came after like this. Just once in its 225 years of formal national existence has the
United States ever invaded another country and carried its ruler back to the United States to
face trial and im-prisonment for violations of American law committed on that rulers own native
foreign turf.8
Following the bombardment, the United States suddenly found itself in a delicate situation. For a
while, it seemed as though the whole thing would backfire. The Bush administration might have
quashed the wimp rumors, but now it faced the problem of legiti-macy, of appearing to be a bully
caught in an act of terrorism. It was disclosed that the U.S. Army had prohibited the press, the
Red Cross, and other outside observers from entering the heavily bombed areas for three days,
while soldiers incinerated and buried the casualties. The press asked questions about how much
evidence of criminal and other inappropriate behavior was destroyed, and about how many died
because they were denied timely medical attention, but such questions were never answered.
We shall never know many of the facts about the invasion, nor shall we know the true extent of
the massacre. Defense Secretary Richard Cheney claimed a death toll between five hundred
and six hundred, but independent human rights groups estimated it at three thousand to five
thousand, with another twenty-five thousand left homeless.9 Noriega was arrested, flown to
Miami, and sentenced to forty years' imprisonment; at that time, he was the only person in the
United States officially classified as a prisoner of war.10
The world was outraged by this breach of international law and by the needless destruction of a
defenseless people at the hands of the most powerful military force on the planet, but few in the
United
The United States Invades Panama
If he took part in that, he's a terrorist and did not serve The United States or its Constitution.
Thank you for proving my point....Nowhere did President Bush order the killing of Muslims just for being Muslims.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
You are a vile, loathsome, spoiled, creature who spews hatred under the allusion that you are morally superior. What they say about you is more than true and it is no surprise your life and career has turned out the way it has.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
One day our paths will cross and I will give the courtesy and allow you to apologize.
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Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Don't dodge things by calling me vile and loathsome, you don't see me claiming I "served my country" by invading and indiscriminately murdering women and children by the hundreds. You claimed you "were there".
My career? You know nothing of "my career". Besides, obvious dodge is obvious, where is the proof you're even American, and that you ever were in the service of my country.?
And why should I apologize when you have insulted me and soiled my Country"s reputation by your claimed terrorist acts?
Even if you apologized to the people of Panama for invading their country just for a cheap ass salary you got---if you ever did---and apologized to the families of those killed and wounded and whose homes were destroyed because you were "just following orders", why should I apologize to you? Because I've shown what you claim you did to be a terrorist action, and illegal under American law?
Ha!