Since Loeb came around.....Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
Since Loeb came around.....Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
The last winningless runner up in WRC was Alex Fiorio in '89. Before him Stig Blomqvist in '85 and Hannu Mikkola in '80. One could also consider Markku Alen in '74, but that's only in virtual classification.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
All of them way before Loeb era :)
End of penultimate leg of Sardigna...only two short stages left to run tomorrow sunday...almost "in the pocket" for Mikko now :cool:
Unless another technical infrigment interfere :p
Hope not though... he deserves a win this year
CONGRATULATIONS MIKKO !!!! :bounce: :up:
Having watched him get this win, I have a feeling this is how he will go about getting the title next year
Well, we can say it already: Mikko Hirvonen - 2013 World Rally Champion!
... sounds good :)
i am a big fan of Mikko, and really really hope he will get the title next year.
hopefully he will finish on a strong spain rally as well, to boost his confidence on Tarmac, and show that he is not far off the pace.
And with VW saying that they will not nominate a no 1 or 2, good chances to see JML and ogier eliminate each other!
So 2013 has to be THE year!
Go Mikko!!!
Interesting information! Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by kober
Here's an interesting statistic for you then: With this weekend's win, his 15th, Mikko now has more wins than Walter Rohrl and is closing in on Bjorn Waldergard's 16. The only driver with more wins who was not a drivers' champion was Markku Alen with 19 (who I believe "would have" won one year in the 70s before the drivers' championship rankings existed, right?).
That's interesting statistics. So Hirvonen is already macthed in victories of drivers of 70's and 80's. I'm wishing him soon to compare to drivers from 90's and this century (without Loeb of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
Good news then! He is only behind these 90s and 2000s drivers: Miki Biasion 17, Auriol 20, Kankkunen 23, Makinen 24, Mcrae 25, Sainz 26, Gronholm 30 (and Loeb of course!). All champions. Most are multiple champions! Champions have had many fewer too - Burns had only 10 wins you know... Blomqvist and Salonen both 11 wins, Munari 7 wins.
Oh and I stand corrected, Markku Alen was driver's champion after all, in 1978, so Hirvonen is the winningest driver ever not to win a championship! I guess it goes to show there's a right and wrong time to win rallies... Munari got the right time, Hirvonen definitely the wrong time! During the Loeb dynasty, even top-class drivers get only crumbs.
It would very for interesting to see the win ratio compared to events, I believe Mikko may have a very low win percentage compared those other drivers you have mentioned, due to the the many more rounds in today's championship. Man reason to why Loeb has won so many more events is due to his win ratio. The ability to do more rounds doubled with the fact that he is so good. (isn't his ratio roughly 50%?)
The numbers should be around that (by ewrc results) for the recent rally winners and champions.Quote:
Originally Posted by leighton323
Mikkos win ration is 11%
Loeb 46%
Grönholm 19.9%
Miki Biasion 18.2%
Mäkinen 18%
Sainz 13.5%
McRae 17.7%
Auriol 12.7%
Kankkunen 12.2%
Burns 9.7%
Solberg 7%
Latvala 6%
Sorry, Bluuford but Loeb's win ratio is 49,7%. He has won 75 and participated in 151 in a WRC car.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
All ratios for all drivers are calculated according to their starts in Word Rally Championship. Sorry, I forgot to add it before. He has 163 starts in total.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
aha, so calculates and the rallies with the saxo s1600 at jwrcQuote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
Alen title in 1978 wasn´t officially. First official WDC was in 79 and Waldegard was champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
Ah, that's what I thought at first - Jonkka's site led me astray! It lists WDC from 77 on, with Munari and Alen in '77 and '78.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Yes, Hirvonen hasn't got a great win ratio, but it is not much worse than most others. Kankkunen had like a four year span between wins once.
juwra.com has win ratios based only on WRC results even if the driver in question was in a s1600 or production car, but it'd be interesting to see a full win ratio across championships (i.e. Loeb's Saxo wins, JWRC wins, PWRC guys' wins). The overall ratio disadvantages drivers who worked support championships in slower cars for longer than the average. Not that that applies too much to Hirvonen, but for example, he has a year as a privateer which Loeb has never had and many of the other champions didn't have.
Anyway, Hirvonen has an awful lot of runner-up positions to Loeb, probably more than anybody (I think I actually calculated that in a previous post somewhere here...), which should remind you that his win ratio is what it is as a function of when he has had his career, as I was saying! I'm glad and privileged to have seen Loeb's era but Mikko's results and placing in history have been negatively impacted for sure.
Loeb had entered at a whole year at wrc with s1600 saxo,and remember another rally with corolla wrc.So in not only Mikko is disadvantage from the ratio wins/entrants at wrc rallies.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
Yeah, I just mean that having your career at the same time as a guy with a win ratio twice as good as any of the other "mortals" who are still known as legends themselves, gives your own successes a bit less colour to stand out.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
All in all it was a very good season for Mikko Hirvonen...hard to end better than 2nd in drivers standing :cool:
I hope in 2013 it'll be even better :bounce:
Next season is truly the moment for something different, I mean to win the title. It seems that it will be next year or never. He is driving the best car. Despite the dozens of tests, Polo's youth should be a problem for the consistency of Ogier and the speed of Latvala, which won't last more than a year.
Even Loeb needed to lose a Championship in the last rally of the Championship before starting his immaculate career. Mikko, who tasted that twice, deserves to be more than the driver with more wins without a Championship. If he doesn't become World Champion next year, his main achievement will be to reach Alen in that classification (on the other hand an impossible dream for most of the drivers who are currently driving in the WRC).
Even inside Citroën Racing, Dani Sordo could be a threat for Mikko :confused:
If Sordo gets to do all rounds, I suspect Hirvonen biggest opposition will be his team mate.
There are a couple of rally's in the begginig of the year that go Sordo way ( Monte-Carlo, Portugal).
Not could but he IS !Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom206wrc
Time to bring this one up again. Because he is as disapointing as before. How many rallies, before Sordo is no 1 and Mikko where he belongs, no 2 (if he desrves even that). I would say after 4tb round he is demoted to no2.
I have to agree. This year he has no excuses not to push. The problem is that he can't. Soon folks have to believe that Mikko is second driver material novadays unable to push the limit. However, his career as second driver of the team may continue long as he is very reliable point-picker.
As a neutral observer the gradual loss of agression / will to win has been clear over the last 2 years. To win championships you have to win rallies on the days when your competitors don't retire. Ogier and Latvala can do this, Hirvonen doesn't anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
And if Mikko wins, Citroen ****ed up everything, wrong parts, wrong holes in wrong places etc. :)
Middle class driver with vast experience. Valuable with 2 teams only, but with 4 from next year he will rarely collect two-cypher number of points.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
He was not much able for it before, too. It was just that the WRC league was too poor after Gronholm retired. His two title chances in 2009 and 2011 arose after Loeb crashed several times continuously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
I'm also disappointed by Mikko's performance so far in Monte-Carlo :mark:
At the opposite, very glad to see Dani's performance whereas he discovers new car in race conditions :)
But hey...rally is still very long to go, and even another final podium for Hirvonen is still hopeful :p :
If Mikko gets a podium in Monte, could we call this a "tarmac" rally? Mikko could score a podium finish on a gravel rally in a 3 cylinder shopping trolley, but a podium on tarmac? Thats more like a gold medal :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom206wrc
Mikko just doesn't seem to have the fight in my opinion anymore. It appears to be his job now and no longer his passion. What are the chances he will retire if he doesn't win the championship?
And because of team orders....Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
Though to be fair Loeb was the beneficiary of team orders too (robbing DS of the Catalunya win in 2009 and causing the whole Seb schism in 2011)Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdale Forest
Have a bit of faith, don't forget in 2012 he had virtually a 100% finishing rate. Mikko will get the title this year; but he will take the slower route.
Today for the last leg of Monte-Carlo weather forecasts go for lots of snow...if the terrain is fully covered of snow everywhere like in Sweden, I hope Mikko will strongly improve his driving :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom206wrc
I must admit I was far from thinking Hirvonen would be already 4th overall after today's SS15 :eek:
3 stages left to go ;)
Loeb will win all 4 rallies, then decide to do two more, win them also and win the title for the 10th time. Unfortunately. But Mikko's consistency might help him in the battle against Ogier. Not sure how having two 'alpha drivers' in Volkswagon will pan out, I don't think neither will give way to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by kober
Definitely something different this time..