Pirelli

I think Pirelli are making the tires the FIA and F1 powers that be wanted. They warned us all before they were produced that there would be more fall off and more differences in the compounds. Tires were used to make for more passes through tire strategy, and so far it has worked.

That said, I don't think Pirelli should have any say in how a team or driver chooses to use their tires. I'm starting to think at some tracks the best strategy might be to go out on the harder compound and do a fast lap or two in hopes of advancing to Q2, and then just sit on all the softer tires and the balance of the hards to use up during the race.

I wonder if the concern is that cars will sit out the second two qually sessions too often, making for boring qually?

Anyone know what compounds are due for Silverstone? They announced it as hard/soft in early May... at the same time they announced medium/super-soft for Valencia, which changed at some point to the medium/soft they actually went with. Have they changed the allocation for Silverstone to medium/soft or hard/medium? (since Autosport imply here that the medium will be used at Silverstone)

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Originally Posted by Somebody

Anyone know what compounds are due for Silverstone? They announced it as hard/soft in early May... at the same time they announced medium/super-soft for Valencia, which changed at some point to the medium/soft they actually went with. Have they changed the allocation for Silverstone to medium/soft or hard/medium? (since Autosport imply here that the medium will be used at Silverstone)

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It should be announced soon.
Interesting to note that Ferrari has been vocal about Pirelli bringing the harder compounds:

Pirelli vows to stay neutral amid Ferrari's concerns over hard tyre - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

I wonder if they will stick with their initial choice or support 'the show'! Let's see what happens.

Soft & Hard compound

FORMULA ONE - F1: Pirelli Takes Soft, Hard Tires To Silverstone

Methinks this is going to backfire.

Well that combination suits Red Bull the most. It will be interesting to see how Mercedes cope as they have been dismal with their tyre management this year.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Soft & Hard compound

FORMULA ONE - F1: Pirelli Takes Soft, Hard Tires To Silverstone

Methinks this is going to backfire.

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That's good. We won't have 1001 pit stops again.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Well that combination suits Red Bull the most. It will be interesting to see how Mercedes cope as they have been dismal with their tyre management this year.

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The harder the tire the better. Mercedes is crap on the super softs, they kill those tires within a couple of laps.

BBC has been noting that the Pirelli tyres are now much more durable than they were at the start of the year. And I feel consequently that excitement we had at the start of the year is missing as Pirelli is no longer fulfilling their brief of supplying tyres which don't last as long.

They were never supposed to supply tires that degrade quickly, it was just face saving hogwash for the gullible fans.
The teams most probably pushed all the time in the background for consistent tires as none of them wants to lose precious points due to crap Pirellis.
Also Pirelli most probably felt the marketing backlash due to the very inconsistent tires.

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Originally Posted by ioan

They were never supposed to supply tires that degrade quickly, it was just face saving hogwash for the gullible fans.

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If that's the case then why didn't Michelin win the contract?

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Originally Posted by ioan

The teams most probably pushed all the time in the background for consistent tires as none of them wants to lose precious points due to crap Pirellis.

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Define consistent tyres?

Pirelli to alter shape of rear tyres in 2012 in order to improve wear - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

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Originally Posted by ioan

Also Pirelli most probably felt the marketing backlash due to the very inconsistent tires.

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What marketing backlash?

Apparenty a rival company has been running an advertising campaign based on Pirelli tyres degrading quickly.

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Originally Posted by wedge

If that's the case then why didn't Michelin win the contract?

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IMO you are putting the cart ahead of the horses just for the sake of having a fight!
Anyway, how was the FIA supposed to know that Pirelli will come up with such bad consistency tires? :rolleyes:
And Michelin didn't win because:
1. They had a public spat with the FIA in 2005
2. Because they wanted to make only 18 inch tires, the same they use for sport cars like the ILMS ALMS LMS etc...

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Originally Posted by wedge

Define consistent tyres?

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Get a dictionary.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Pirelli to alter shape of rear tyres in 2012 in order to improve wear - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

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So, instead of saying the tires we have now are crap they say they make changes to further improve the tires! More hogwash! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by wedge

What marketing backlash?

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Read the press, watch the news, heck watch a race and listen to the commentary!

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Originally Posted by ioan

They were never supposed to supply tires that degrade quickly, it was just face saving hogwash for the gullible fans.
The teams most probably pushed all the time in the background for consistent tires as none of them wants to lose precious points due to crap Pirellis.
Also Pirelli most probably felt the marketing backlash due to the very inconsistent tires.

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I guess Bernie, Pirelli, Jenson, and a bunch of the fans started making up excuses before the fact?

Formula 1

That contains comments regarding Bernies desires and feelings about the Pirellis, including comments about not wanting too much durability.

Formula 1

That links points out that the softer compounds will improve performance at the expense of durability, which will make for more strategy decisions. Remind me how many F1 races had taken place in February?

Formula 1

Another article that mentions the importance of strategy and tire management. Button comments that it's "what everyone wanted". I guess Jenson was making excuses before the season started in exchange for kickbacks from Pirelli? :laugh:


Well before the season started Pirelli stated they were going to make tires that would require two to three stops per race on average. But they also made it very clear that using the softer compounds in an aggressive manner would cause more rapid degradation and more stops. It seems the powers that be that brought Pirelli into F1 for this season are happy with the outcome.

It's a shame Pirelli have felt forced into changing the rubber. Forgetting for a moment, the time worn argument, regarding whether or not they intended the tyres to degrade quickly, no one can deny the action on track that resulted was fantastic.

The fact that they are now building tyres that last double GP distances off the back of criticism from small minded fans (you know who you are) and bellow the belt advertising campaigns by other manufactures is saddening.

Ho hum; we'll just have to rely on DRS - coz we all know how fabulous that is :rolleyes:

Indeed. We had fantastic action at the start of the year, down to the tyres and that's now been removed.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

I guess Bernie, Pirelli, Jenson, and a bunch of the fans started making up excuses before the fact?

Formula 1

That contains comments regarding Bernies desires and feelings about the Pirellis, including comments about not wanting too much durability.

Formula 1

That links points out that the softer compounds will improve performance at the expense of durability, which will make for more strategy decisions. Remind me how many F1 races had taken place in February?

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Everyone was complaining back in winter and you think the truth is being spoken 3 months later? Then why do they feel the need for change if everything is so great for everyone?! care to explain it?

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Originally Posted by Sonic

It's a shame Pirelli have felt forced into changing the rubber. Forgetting for a moment, the time worn argument, regarding whether or not they intended the tyres to degrade quickly, no one can deny the action on track that resulted was fantastic.

The fact that they are now building tyres that last double GP distances off the back of criticism from small minded fans (you know who you are) and bellow the belt advertising campaigns by other manufactures is saddening.

Ho hum; we'll just have to rely on DRS - coz we all know how fabulous that is :rolleyes:

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:rotflmao:
You think that Pirelli are changing tire compounds due to 'small minded fans' complaining?! I hope you were joking!
:rotflmao:

The pressure that brought the change is from teams and from the market, and that is what matters most in a competitive environment.

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Originally Posted by ioan

The pressure that brought the change is from teams and from the market, and that is what matters most in a competitive environment.

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Exactly, the market is made up of casual fans (like ones who only attended one race and didn't like the noise, bless) failing to understand that Pirelli aren't useless but were deliberately making less durable tyes following suggestions by the teams.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Exactly, the market is made up of casual fans (like ones who only attended one race and didn't like the noise, bless) failing to understand that Pirelli aren't useless but were deliberately making less durable tyes following suggestions by the teams.

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:laugh:
Because those who are not casual fans would never ever buy Pirelli?
The excuses for Pirelli are hilarious! :rotflmao:

Pirelli are awesome, Paul Hembrey is the 2nd coming and I claim my £5

I think we saw today that a good race track makes for good racing.

So can you finally accept that Pirelli were asked to produce less durable tyres? And without deflecting the issue yet again?

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Originally Posted by Mark

So can you finally accept that Pirelli were asked to produce less durable tyres? And without deflecting the issue yet again?

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You talking to me?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You talking to me?

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punk......

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Originally Posted by Mark

So can you finally accept that Pirelli were asked to produce less durable tyres? And without deflecting the issue yet again?

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I could but I won't. Why should I accept ungrounded claims?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You talking to me?

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You? No I never talk to you, you should know this :p

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Originally Posted by Mark

You? No I never talk to you, you should know this :p

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You've tried but I just don't understand a word you're saying :p

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Originally Posted by ioan

Read the press, watch the news, heck watch a race and listen to the commentary!

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Links?

Nigel Roebuck has been pleased with Pirelli's efforts

Audio podcasts | Motor Sport Magazine

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Originally Posted by wedge

Links?

Nigel Roebuck has been pleased with Pirelli's efforts

Audio podcasts | Motor Sport Magazine

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So what? Should we now believe every journalist.

What about the Pirelli apologetic come up with a link to an 2010 official request to Pirelli to provide a fast degrading tire, not the hogwash served since it turned out that the tires were crap? Then we can talk.

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Originally Posted by ioan

So what? Should we now believe every journalist.

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No. Like you we should only believe the journalists that agree with us. ;)

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Originally Posted by ioan

I could but I won't. Why should I accept ungrounded claims?

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Remember how you boast that "I'll always try to back up" everything you post?

Here's a few snippets about Pirelli for you, so that you no longer have to refer to these claims as "ungrounded":

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And pit-stops are likely to prove key again this season after Pirelli replaced Bridgestone as tyre suppliers, with the tyres specifically designed to be less durable in an effort to increase the number of pit-stops.

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(BBC News, March 2011)

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Pirelli's motorsport boss Paul Hembery confirmed that Pirelli has responded to the desire that tyre strategy influences the entertainment-value of grands prix. "We have been asked to produce tyres to improve the show," he said. "But if we are very criticised by the teams or the drivers, yes, we will be able to bring to the next race very durable tyres."

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(ESPN, November 2010)

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The teams also placed demands on the tyres characteristics on track whilst the FIA made requests regarding the tyre’s durability. [...] Hembery reveals “I’m guessing that we will have a number of races where two tyre changes will be required. The wear rate has been engineered to be higher than in 2010. The engineers are different they would like one set of tyres then concentrate on the car but the team principles think differently! It a different design input, we could make them last the whole season, but we also want entertaining races!”

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(Racecar Engineering, January 2011)

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Asked about the request from Bernie Ecclestone to produce tyres that deliberately deteriorate - a move which caused much flak for the Italian manufacturer, not least from Pitpass, Tronchetti said: "We were asked to create more emotions and we did it, with safe tyres lasting enough but not too much, which is really very difficult."

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(Pitpass, May 2011)



Will you now accept what everybody else seems to find simple: that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres for 2011?

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Will you now accept what everybody else seems to find simple: that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres for 2011?

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Think I heard a sharp intake of breath....... :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZhrbQL9S5I#t=2m13

The Pirelli tyres are providing some great racing this year. I think they have got it just about perfect.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Will you now accept what everybody else seems to find simple: that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres for 2011?

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I accept that.
Will you lot accept that I do not believe the hogwash?
Doesn't look like it, reading this thread. I wonder if it has to do with trolling around or somethings else, worse than it.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:rotflmao:
You think that Pirelli are changing tire compounds due to 'small minded fans' complaining?! I hope you were joking!
:rotflmao:

The pressure that brought the change is from teams and from the market, and that is what matters most in a competitive environment.

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No. But the marketing campaign directed against Pirelli IS targeted at those small minded souls who can't grasp the difference between a road tyre that is designed for 20,000km and a race tyre that needs to last less than 200.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

No. But the marketing campaign directed against Pirelli IS targeted at those small minded souls who can't grasp the difference between a road tyre that is designed for 20,000km and a race tyre that needs to last less than 200.

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Or maybe those poor souls have seen the quality of a Michelin and Bridgestone F1 tire, just as fast as the Pirelli or faster and able to run over 300 kms. That's the problem here, no one is comparing F1 specific tires with road car tires.

But we are not in a tyre war Ioan. I have never doubted that if Stone or Charlietwins were here, Pirelli would be being kicked to the kerb.

However, they have a right to learn their craft without their efforts being lambasted. They have not built sub par or dangerous tyres, and, whether planned or not, the rubber has created good racing.

In short...I don't see what your problem is.

This is from Autoevolution :

Marco Tronchetti presents the new Pirelli F1 tire
In an effort to boost the show in Formula One a little bit, new tire supplier Pirelli is set to introduce tires that will make for multiple pit stop strategies in 2011. According to a report from Italian magazine Autosprint, the new compound tires developed by Pirelli will require approximately 3 stops per race, depending on certain conditions (tire wear, weather and so on).

Ever since it won the tender to become sole F1 supplier for the upcoming 3 years, the Italian tire maker has vowed to improve the F1 show by developing more aggressive tires for 2011.

Additionally, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) has held all the necessary discussions with Pirelli to design such tires, with the Autosprint report suggesting that the new hard compound will last for approximately 30 laps. Considering that the top 10 drivers on the grid will start off with the tires used in Q3, that would easily ensure at least 2 pit stops per driver every other weekend.

Meanwhile, Pirelli is on its way to finalizing the development of its 2011 compounds by doing a 2-day wet session, at night, on the Yas Marina circuit in Abu Dhabi. Spanish driver Pedro de la Rosa has already done some mileage in the 2009-spec Toyota (Pirelli test car) last night and is scheduled to complete the Abu Dhabi programme later today.

The weather and track conditions in Abu Dhabi this week have been carefully evaluated by Pirelli in order for them to complete the development of their wet and intermediate tires. This is the manufacturer's last session before the first group test of the winter, to kick off on February 1st, yet Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery admitted further changes may occur in terms of tire development following the 4 group tests in February and March.

“These tests will provide us with useful information to finalize our tire development process for Formula One,” said Hembery.

This is from Autoevolution :

"In an effort to boost the show in Formula One a little bit, new tire supplier Pirelli is set to introduce tires that will make for multiple pit stop strategies in 2011. According to a report from Italian magazine Autosprint, the new compound tires developed by Pirelli will require approximately 3 stops per race, depending on certain conditions (tire wear, weather and so on).

Ever since it won the tender to become sole F1 supplier for the upcoming 3 years, the Italian tire maker has vowed to improve the F1 show by developing more aggressive tires for 2011.

Additionally, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) has held all the necessary discussions with Pirelli to design such tires, with the Autosprint report suggesting that the new hard compound will last for approximately 30 laps. Considering that the top 10 drivers on the grid will start off with the tires used in Q3, that would easily ensure at least 2 pit stops per driver every other weekend.

Meanwhile, Pirelli is on its way to finalizing the development of its 2011 compounds by doing a 2-day wet session, at night, on the Yas Marina circuit in Abu Dhabi. Spanish driver Pedro de la Rosa has already done some mileage in the 2009-spec Toyota (Pirelli test car) last night and is scheduled to complete the Abu Dhabi programme later today.

The weather and track conditions in Abu Dhabi this week have been carefully evaluated by Pirelli in order for them to complete the development of their wet and intermediate tires. This is the manufacturer's last session before the first group test of the winter, to kick off on February 1st, yet Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery admitted further changes may occur in terms of tire development following the 4 group tests in February and March.

“These tests will provide us with useful information to finalize our tire development process for Formula One,” said Hembery."