Team orders at Ferrari

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Come on, fess up, we all know you be a closet Freddie fanboy, that is clear from your posts of freddie and ferrari did no wrong

as to hindsight, depends on whose hind as to if it be a fine thing....
for example with your missus, one can never tell if it is foresight or hindsight you be looking at, assuming you got 25 cents and the time to wait in the long line :dozey:

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:rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by Somebody

People, again, the US$100k *is not the end of the matter*. The stewards not only found them guilty, they passed the buck up to the WMSC, who can impose further penalties (up to and including the penalty given to McLaren over "spygate", since Ferrari were found guilty of the same "bringing the sport into disreptute" offense).

The German GP result stands, unfortunately - but since they've been found guilty and sent upstairs pending further punishment, they've got more pain to come.

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but that is the worst part, the result should not stand, If they fined them $100k then they should have equally stripped therm from the results. This would have been the only proper outcome and a good precedent for any future shenanigans that might happen between vettel/webber and Hamilton/Button.

Instead you now have these teams willing to do team orders and then pay the poultry $100k afterwards.

I feel bad for smedley and massa,
As to alonso what a complete zero of a human being, can,t beat your teammate on track, then cry over the radio to tell them to let you by, Can't beat your teammate on the track, then blackmail your team to favor you, offer bribes to the mechanics to make your car better. This guy is at the center of the 3 biggest scandals in F1 of recent, useless

As to Ferrari, they have brought the sport to disrepute. Should have been banned for the next race. simple clean and effective punishment.
Didn't the FIa at first ban renault for valencia last year before "overturning" the verdict?
They should have been banned and then dare the FIA heads to overturn the decision.

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

Maybe not big bad Alonso, but at least big bad Ferrari? Both Massa and Alonso had a mathematical chance at winning the championship with 8 races to go. This wasn't needed today.

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Big bad Ferrari and this wasn't needed... there, common ground :)

as this appears to be a "team" sport and everybody is doing what they're doing for the "team", i suggest they do away with the drivers championship and only have a constructors/team championship that way team orders will be legal.
all you have to worry about then is teams who have shared interests.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

As to Ferrari, they have brought the sport to disrepute. Should have been banned for the next race. simple clean and effective punishment.
Didn't the FIa at first ban renault for valencia last year before "overturning" the verdict?
They should have been banned and then dare the FIA heads to overturn the decision.

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Agreed, especially as they wouldn't have had time to ask for a hearing before next week end's race! :D

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Originally Posted by Somebody

Joe Saward's saying that US$100k is the maximum monetary fine the stewards can impose: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...errari-guilty/

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how about stripping the results and imposing a one race ban if they are looking to impose a maximum fine? Instead they asked Ferrari to give them the loose change in Alonso's pocket

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Originally Posted by acorn

as this appears to be a "team" sport and everybody is doing what they're doing for the "team", i suggest they do away with the drivers championship and only have a constructors/team championship that way team orders will be legal.
all you have to worry about then is teams who have shared interests.

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Not a bad idea.

Hmm, they've slapped the maximum fine on, which suggests the stewards saw enough to know they weren't happy about it. I'm looking forward to the WMSC meeting, though it could do with being a bit earlier..

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Originally Posted by markabilly

far worse than donkey jote's fit, when he found out he left his balls with my missus...not her fault, she thought they were fleas and squashed them before he came crawling back for them

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your sister got my balls? Is that what she told you?
Never mind I won't be back too soon... ran out of paper bags :dozey:

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Originally Posted by truefan72

how about stripping the results and imposing a one race ban if they are looking to impose a maximum fine? Instead they asked Ferrari to give them the loose change in Alonso's pocket

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It is obvious that the stewards didn't dare go for anything but a useless monetary punishment. They simply deferred the responsibility to the WMSC.

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

So, the "possibility" that Vettel would have caught up to Alonso is a fact? :-/

Also, I wonder how Alonso was being held up by Massa when the gap was around a second or 8 tenths for a good 4 laps before the "clean overtake" by Alonso. :rolleyes:

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which only came down because they were going through traffic
Massa had this race in control, that is why Alonso made the call. It was a 2 horse race to the finish and Alonso mr.crybaby wanted the victory without having to earn it. Even if you think you are faster, if you can't overtake the guy then you don't deserve the victory.

Interesting point. If Ferrari did nothing wrong, why are they acting guilty?

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If the team felt it had done things by the book, why the need for the shambolic post podium podium? Why did Stefano Domenicali (in whom I will admit I have huge respect), see it necessary to drag his drivers, one of whom clearly did not wish to be there under such circumstances, onto the top step of the podium to share the win?

And why, in the post race TV scrums, was Felipe Massa in posession of the winning driver’s Bridgestone cap, clearly marked with “1st”?


In one moment, Ferrari showed the world just how embarrassed it was about what it had done to its driver and to its fans. That one moment simply oozed with an overwhelming sense of guilt.

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http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com...the-game-away/

I wonder why Alonso wasn´t ashamed when he lied at the press conference?

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

I, in Massa's shoes, would have blocked unibrow until kingdom come, and taken the win gleefully. Then show Ferrari the finger and signed for another team.

But alas, people give Ferrari way too much respect than they deserve, and so end up making compromises. Hopefully karma bites them in their a$$. I for one am glad in a way that I've found the perfect villains to hate in F1 from now on.

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good point Massa should have known that his race winning day and title contention days were finished the minute Alonso signed to join them and they kicked out another great driver to do so. As soon as he got tht radio message from smedley he should have know that his days at ferrari are at an end and refuse dot yield the position.

After the race the team would be in a tough position of having to reprimand massa for winning a race and looking like fools.

Smedley and massa would both have all the ammunition they need to make public anything that they were told to do if things went from bad to worse. He should leave the team soon. All he needs to do is ask his good friend rubens about life after Ferrari.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Whatever controversaties have followed Alonso round like a bad smell, I've always had the utmost respect for his driving. Now I'm afraid the evidence is overwhelming that he cannot handle having a fast team mate, and that he'll cry like a baby unless he gets his own way. If he was truly quicker today he should have overtaken Massa fair and square.

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:up:

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Whatever controversaties have followed Alonso round like a bad smell, I've always had the utmost respect for his driving. Now I'm afraid the evidence is overwhelming that he cannot handle having a fast team mate, and that he'll cry like a baby unless he gets his own way. If he was truly quicker today he should have overtaken Massa fair and square.

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Well said :beer:

Alonso has brought Renault & McLaren to their knees, it only took a few races for him to do it to Ferrari.

Big Bad Alonso Booooooooooooooooooooo

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

I wonder why Alonso wasn´t ashamed when he lied at the press conference?

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He's never been ashamed, he doesn't know what that means.

Dear Ferrari

Red Bull says thank you... :cheese:

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Dear Ferrari

Red Bull says thank you... :cheese:

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Don't they just. Horner looked like a dog with two d***s when he spoke to BBC directly after the GP.

What a stupid move by Ferrari.

They could have made it back to the top with a brillant 1-2 win.

After today the team lost support of many, including me. I just hope for Felipe that he still can make more good results this year.
If the car has made the progress it seems, he has chances to win more races imo.

Btw : Massa makes generally very good starts. Almost every race he made a better start then Alonso. Being on 3th position on the grid, I did expect him to take the lead in the first corner, and so he did.

This was a straight question (from another forum)

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_me...ference-sun.pdf

Q: (Ian Gordon – News of the World) Fernando, you said after Valencia that the race had been manipulated in favour of Lewis. Those words seem a bit hollow now. Where will this victory rank in your career, is it up there with Singapore 2008?

Ferrari sets the environment for these drivers. FIA leave ambiguity in their rules. Don't blame Alonso. Put the blame where it should be. Why should Alonso risk his position when all he has to do is prove he is faster and then call in and have the team handle it. Now do I agree - hell no!!

The transcript of the press conference is feisty reading, especially the questions from the floor!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85561

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

The transcript of the press conference is feisty reading, especially the questions from the floor!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85561

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That press conference was great :p :D

What team orders? Alonso used his 0.6 seconds in that lap to overtake Massa.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

The transcript of the press conference is feisty reading, especially the questions from the floor!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85561

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They were all over Alonso, and rightly so.

And Vettel had one of those moments when it was obvious that all the questions were meant to the other two drivers:

SV: Can I go?

Pure gold!

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Originally Posted by Shalafi

What team orders? Alonso used his 0.6 seconds in that lap to overtake Massa.

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:rotflmao: Excellent! :up:

Ferrari are within their right. Alonso - who was quicker - understands this business and both Massa and Smedley ought to be reprimanded for their comments and actions towards Ferrari.

If Massa is dissatisfied then the time to argue the point was during recent contract negotiations.

The FIA fines Ferrari and investigates because of the rule - but as can be argued - the actual application is not quite so simple.

Are there teammorders? No.

Could Massa have defended his position? Yes. He did so earlier on in the grand prix from Alonso. Massa made this decision.

The fine Ferrari looks to be paying is really because the "spirit" of the rule is probably considered broken - but then the FIA are capricious as we saw with the double-diffuser issue in 2009.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Ferrari are within their right. Alonso - who was quicker - understands this business and both Massa and Smedley ought to be reprimanded for their comments and actions towards Ferrari.

If Massa is dissatisfied then the time to argue the point was during recent contract negotiations.

The FIA fines Ferrari and investigates because of the rule - but as can be argued - the actual application is not quite so simple.

Are there teammorders? No.

Could Massa have defended his position? Yes. He did so earlier on in the grand prix from Alonso. Massa made this decision.

The fine Ferrari looks to be paying is really because the "spirit" of the rule is probably considered broken - but then the FIA are capricious as we saw with the double-diffuser issue in 2009.

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You remind me of the (pikey) traveller kid at school - on his own......

I´m sure ferrari and alonso are proud of their victory today.

After the WMSC hearing I´m afraid it wil blow in the wind.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Ferrari are within their right. Alonso - who was quicker - understands this business and both Massa and Smedley ought to be reprimanded for their comments and actions towards Ferrari.

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I was wondering how long will it taken until we can read your usual 'pearls'.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I don't often agree with a journalist from the 'News of The World', but this was about as direct a question that anybody should ask. The uncomfortable wording from Fernando and the fact he attempts to turn the attack on the questioner confirms their is an element of guilt of how the race was manipulated.

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Guilt? No.

Fernando Alonso was trying to answer a question in a language that is not his, the best he could without enabling it to be used AGAINST Ferrari later on.

Do you know how difficult that is? Could you do the same as eloquently in Spanish?

Personally, I had to learn English and an entirely different alphabet because my natural language is Hebrew. It is not easy and to be under the hostile attack of the moatly self-righteous British journalists who are mostly hostile towards Ferrari anyway, is extreme pressure.

I think Alonso was eloquent and he understands F1. Pity the emotional journalists and too many fans do not.

This is f1 and team orders are the right and are part of f1 - regardless of the politcally correct stupid rules.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:down: :down: :down: Ferrari, Alonso and dare I say Santander!
:down: :up: Smedley and Massa for making the team orders so obvious but still bending over.

I'll never support these Italian cheap-shots again.

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The pinnacle of hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I was wondering how long will it taken until we can read your usual 'pearls'.

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Absent emotionalism - you know that I am correct - and that it was the order of play when Schumi was driving for Benetton and Ferrari.

You cannot have it both ways.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Guilt? No.

Fernando Alonso was trying to answer a question in a language that is not his, the best he could without enabling it to be used AGAINST Ferrari later on.

Do you know how difficult that is? Could you do the same as eloquently in Spanish?

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Spanish and English are related, it should be relatively simple for Spaniards to learn English (Although they don't despite the 16 million British tourists that visit the country annually). I haven't seen you offer sympathy for drivers who have real problems with communication since their language and culture are so different.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Thankfully I don't work in an industry that requires me to speak Spanish as a designated first language when comunicating with others. Fernando speaks English very well as most of his career has involved him living in Oxford, and I'm pretty sure he knows how adopt an element of English sarcasm when answering an uncomfortable question.

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So you judge him based on what you believe rather than the facts.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Absent emotionalism - you know that I am correct - and that it was the order of play when Schumi was driving for Benetton and Ferrari.

You cannot have it both ways.

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There was a time when team orders were legal and no one was hiding them.

Today it is illegal and what Ferrari did is a slap in the face of all of us followed by lots of lies.
You support this? Fine, I don't.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

So you judge him based on what you believe rather than the facts.

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Any normal people would be able to speak fluently in a language after using it for 10 years. Saying that English is his problem is a very poor excuse.