This is valid only for WRC events, nothing else.
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This is valid only for WRC events, nothing else.
This could also be put this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
Class WRC: 1.6T engine + WRC kit
Class 1: S2000 with 1.6T engine
Class 2: R4 and S2000 with 2.0 NA engine
Class 3: N4
Class 4: RGT
Class 5: A7, S1600, R2C, R3C, R3T and R3D
Class 6: A6, R2B and Kit cars >1400 cm3 – 1600 cm3
Class 7: A5 and Kit cars < 1400 cm3
Class 8: N3
Class 9: N2 and R1B
Class 10: N1 and R1A
Yep.
Class WRC: 1.6T engine + WRC kit
Class 1: S2000 with 1.6T engine
Class 2: R4 and S2000 with 2.0 NA engine
Class 3: N4
Class 4: RGT
Class 5: A7, S1600, R2C, R3C, R3T and R3D
Class 6: A6, R2B and Kit cars >1400 cm3 – 1600 cm3
Class 7: A5 and Kit cars < 1400 cm3
Class 8: N3
Class 9: N2 and R1B
Class 10: N1 and R1A
Then to take out the categories that manufacturers are not homologating in anymore and S2000 which is no new homologations after end Dec 2010.
This is what will happen over time (a long time!)
Class WRC: 1.6T engine + WRC kit
Class 1:
Class 2: R4
Class 3:
Class 4: RGT
Class 5: R2C, R3C, R3T and R3D
Class 6: R2B
Class 7:
Class 8:
Class 9: R1B
Class 10: R1A
Maybe I´m wrong, but AFAIK, s2000 new cars can´t be homologated from 2011 with 2000cc NA engines, but 1.6T can be, so "class 1" would be still okQuote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
I’ve understood that the brake pads for group N can’t be bigger than the original ones and using bigger brake disks won’t change the braking power but there must be some reason for using bigger brake discs. Of course the Brembo and AP Racing brakes used are made for rally use with some heavier usage than standard brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I’ve been trying to compare S2000 and homologated group N break disks, and they seem to be the same size. Rear gravel/tarmac brake discs 300 mm and tarmac front discs 355 mm and gravel front brake discs 300 mm (which are actually smaller than the original ones for both Mitsubishi and Subaru).
I don’t know the brake pads sizes of S2000 cars but maybe the brake pads size of the original for Mitsubishi and Subaru are enough to give enough braking power.
Those who know better can explain this. If the braking powers of the group N brakes were OK with the current brakes then the problem would be to get some weight of from the R4 cars, with reasonable costs.
To brake rotating wheel You need braking torque. The torque is a multiplication of braking force and disc effective radius.
Braking force is normal force multiplied by friction coefficient (changeble with temperature or pad state for example). Normal force on brake pads is caused by hydraulic pressure via brake pistons.
It's not good to compare stock and racing brakes as racing systems doesn't use brake booster to prevent time delay (they use larger brake cylinders) and for better feeling in brake pedal.
Anyway the larger the disc, the bigger brake torque and the better cooling (larger area means more heat exchange). But it also means bigger wheel inertia which negatively affects both acceleration and deceration. Therefore You have to think about ideal dimensions for both axles (each one have different adhesion).
In group N cars the problem is mostly in weight. Very simpliffied: For some decelaration "a" of a weight "m" You need some force "F". If You have same F for both S2000 and gr.N You can easily compare difference in decelartion a=F/m. That's the simplies case when both braking on 100% and have same adhesion (same tyres, suspension, weight ballance etc.) and same cooling, which is another problem.
Thanks Mirek.
I dug up and old book that I bought when I was a young boy and did some reading. Now I’m more aware of what you wrote.
You know, the physics haven’t changed at all during these years. :)
It's always fascinating for me to read the conversations of you 2 .... Thanks Mirek and OldF ;)
Newtonian mechanics, at least... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Thanks for the compliment. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
We work as a team. I ask the questions and Mirek give the answers. :D
And the rest of us learn - thats the beauty of internet and Forums like this one ! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Yes indeed ! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
I'm reading and learning all the time :p
It would be excellent to see Audi come in with the S3 for an R4 car.
However, it's one of those where Audi will not want to have their cars be second rate to a Fiesta, MINI and DS3 on rallies.
It´s one of most useful way of grouping classes I´ve ever seen. Thnx OldFQuote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Here is a car to rival VW if they come in with their Scirroco as 2 litre turbo FWD.
http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/12/08/re...llying-megane/
Is it 32mm restrictor for this category? Has somenoe got the link to the FIA PDF which has the rally categories explained showing the restrictor sizes? I think I saw it posted on here earlier?
It’s 33 mm from beginning of 2010. Renault is little down with power compared to other N4 but it’s only FWD so 266 bhp is probably enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
Here. http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regul...tingCodeA.aspx
Click on “Appendix J (2010) to the International Sporting Code” or this direct link.
Appendix J (2010) to the International Sporting Code
Article 254 group N, Article 260 group R etc.
Thanks OldF :)
So today is the announcement day for final R4 regs?
MITSUBISHI LANCER R4 IN MONZA WITH ARMINDO ARAÚJO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcO8qvun-rc
:) Great Car and comming soon to a rally near to you in 2011..Quote:
Originally Posted by RICARDO75
are you going to prepare a R4 evo?
What are the changes? :rolleyes:
The car look really good, it looks much more alive than a Gr N Lancer. Do you know how much extra power these cars will have? Around 50hp more?Quote:
Originally Posted by RICARDO75
I think no extra power but some hundred kilograms less.
Words from Armindo Araújo after day one in Monza with the new Lancer R4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
"The car is very difficult to drive. It has plenty of power which makes the car more lively"
I don't know which restrictor was in the car in Monza but in 2011 it should be same as in Gr.N cars.
Is Ralliart Italy the only tuner building/developing R4 so far, or are others working on it as well ?
RalliArt-Italy is the only one working on it, and it looks like European importers will join their budget to give RA-I the status of new "RalliArt Europe"... a reference for them, customers, etc...
Probably Colsoul Rallysport will follow :) . That's still a guess though but history showed that they build new cars very short after the release of a new Lancer .
So it looks like R4 is all finalised on the rules. With Mit and Subaru ready for 2011?
Is the final decision 33mm or a chance that 34mm will be announced?
Is there still classes like the old N2 or N3 classes? And in that case what´s the name? R2N? R3N?
And what about the RXT classes? Is the only difference turbos? E.g. more powered cars with same technical rules but engine? Very much to have control over for the media and spectators. Makes the sport more public, or?? :confused:
I tried to answer in the other thread where You asked the same: http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...=139968&page=6
so R4 with 33mm restrictor, 1300kg minimum weight, plastic windows, etc.
Can anybody (Imperatore?) confirm that Ralliart Italy is working on R4 kit only for Lancer Evo X? It means no R4 kit will be available for Evo IX?
Why don't you sent him a PM?Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
No R4 kit for Evo IX.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
The 2wd R categories is liked by the British Rally Championship. As they have announced a 2WD only for R categories from 2012.
The 2012 Championship will solely focus on competition with homologated two wheel drive cars up to two litre engine capacity, as well as cars that are still homologated in groups A & N, it includes the new breed of Group R class cars currently produced by Renault, Peugeot, Suzuki, Ford and Citroën. Following discussions with manufacturers it is also known that other marques are expected to homologate two wheel drive cars in 2011 these include Mini and Skoda.
Will other European countries follow with a similiar format?
Just need the world rally championship and IRC to also do this ;)
I have heard the same story.Quote:
Originally Posted by aykutbilir
They did this in the 90's with the Kit CarsQuote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
PRESS RELEASE For Immediate release 05/01/11
Dulux Trade MSA British Rally Championship
Four wheel drive; over but not out
Following the announcement that the MSA British Rally Championship will only be for two wheel drive cars from 2012, Championship Manger Mark Taylor has pledged that there will be a home for the four wheel drive cars which will be unable to compete in the BRC.
“Outside of the BRC, discussions with competitors and teams are ongoing and there is significant interest in creating a series purely for four wheel drive cars.” he said, “but UK Rally is keen to point out this will not have the British title or indeed conflict with the objectives for the BRC. Instead ideas surrounding a “Masters” series are being drawn up, based on Group A8 and Group B13 four wheel drive cars only.
Whilst the series would in the main be held at rounds of the BRC, the competitors would enter stand alone events, such as the rally held in Northern Ireland for world rally cars in 2010, so as not to conflict with other rallies. It would be featured in the media as a competitive arena for past rally champions and competitors who enjoy their four wheel drive cars, seeking to compete on longer single day events with high media profile and quality television coverage.
Whilst we eagerly await the outcome of the MSA’s review on stage rallying, it is hoped that more details should emerge by Easter 2011.”
+Honda (Civic R3) and Abarth/Fiat (500 R3T)Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
If I have good info, Fabia R2 Max will be homologated at 1st March.
Abarth also Punto R3D ;) No Suzuki in Gr.R, I think.