Thank you Carles. :up:
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Thank you Carles. :up:
Back to old ERC. Just to make the thread alive.
Missing results:
1965 RACE (Spain) - 4th-10th
1965 Tulip - 7th-10th
1965 Coupe des Alpes - 8th-10th
1965 Munchen-Wienna-Budapest - 7th-10th
1966 Alpenfahrt - 4th-10th
1966 Geneve 10th
1966 Deutschland 6th-10th (co-drivers missing)
1966 Munchen-Wienna-Budapest - 7th-10th
1967 Alpenfahrt - 4th-10th
1967 Vltava alias Moldau 9th-10th
1967 Danube alias Donnau 7th-10th
1967 Coupe des Alpes 7th-10th (overall)
Regards
Janusz
This is what I've found browsing through my database. Please, handle with care...Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
Carles.
Carles.
Many thanks Carles! It was a great delivery! Do you have final points for the following rallies:
1965
RACE 1st-3rd
Coupe des Alpes 1st-7th
M-W-B 1st-6th
1967
Alpenfahrt 1st-5th & 9th-10th
Vltava 1st-8th (were there only 9 finishers, or you know just 9 of them?)
Danube 1st-6th
Coupe des Alpes 1st-6th
Regards
Janusz
Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
Carles.
1967 Alpenfahrt
2.02'58"4
2.03'50"6
2.04'56"3
2.04'58"2
2.07'50"0
2.09'42"8
2.10'23"1
2.10'34"7
2.10'44"7
2.11'14"6
Do you know the driver to 11° to 15° ?
Best regards
Dario
Thank you Carles and Dario!
Asking questions I missed few more classifications:
1969
Vltava (Moldau) - 9th-10th
RACE 4th-10th
1970
Vltava (Moldau) 10th
Munchen-Wienna-Budapest 4th-10th
RACE 4th-10th
Belgique 4th-10th
Regards
Janusz
1969 Vltava
9° Chlustina - Oeach Skoda 1100 MB
10° Brunclik - Gernat Skoda 1100 MB
RACE
4° R. Jimenez - Segovia Lancia HF
5° "Pedro " - Dejonghe BMW 2002 Ti
6° C. Tuerlinx - Stalpaert Opel Commodore GS
7° JM. Lencina - Caballero Lancia HF
8° K. Simonsen - A. Henriksen Opel Kadett GT
9° . Zapico - Gregorio Renault R8
10° H. Billstram - C. Billstram Opel Kadett
11° Mesia - Saavarada BMW 2002
12° C. De Cos - F. Salas Renault R8
13° Marquez - Eulate Alfa Romeo 1750
14° "Correcaminas" - De Onis Seat 600 D
15° Martin - Nunez Triumph TR 4
1970 Vltava
10° Bold - M. Pomezny Skoda 110 L
MVB
4° A. Warmbold - R. Kec Opel Kadett GT
5° G. Janger - M. Bien Porsche 911
6° W. Roser - Mayer Alpine A110
7° A. Ferjancz- J. Tandari Renault R8
8° Georg Fischer- H. Gottlieb Vw 1302
9° P. Komornicki - B. Krupa Alpine A110
10° J. Bosch - W. Lier VW 1302
RACE
4° Lele Pinto - Kirroy Lancia HF
5° E. Reverter - Pavon Porsche 911
6° G. Staepelaere - A. Aertz Ford Escort
7° J. Ragnotti - P. Thimonier Opel Kadett
8° P. Komornicki - B. Krupa Alpine A110
9° H. Van Dulken - Antolin Renault R8
10° P. Ransilla - Javal Renault R8
11° MC. Beaumont - M. Grandrive Opel Commodore
Best Regards
Dario
Many thanks Dario! I think that 10th in M-W-B'70 was Austian Leopold Bosch not J.Bosch. 9th in the same rally was not P. Komornicki but Krzysztof Komornicki co-driven by Blazej Krupa. (same names in RACE'70).
By the way: do you know (Vltava'67) co-driver to 9th Franz Galle and who was classified in 10th? And I'm pretty sure (Vltava'69) co-driver to Chlustina is misspelled. There is no such Czechoslovak name Oeach. 10th were Oldrich Brunclik and Jan Gernat (Vltava'69).
Warm regards
Janusz
On the Chlustine codriver I've this name: Øehák... of course, I don't know if this is the right spelling or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
Carles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dario
Carles.
It sounds good now. I can confirm existence of such co-driver (Rehak - with that little chevron above the letter "R" which makes a difference while reading and a big one if computer changes it to "Ø") from Czechoslovakia in late 60's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carles Bosch 2
Many thanks Carles
Regards
Janusz
And again many thanks to you Carles. Your presicions are precoius. Thou you didn't precise Komornicki - there is still P. Komornicki. I know for sure it was Krzysztof Komornicki/Błażej (Blazej - to be more readible) Krupa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carles Bosch 2
I see I have a big problem (many "blanks") concerning R.A.C.E. Rally of 70's, too. I'll specify them in a minute.
Regards
Janusz
That is what I have concerning R.A.C.E.'71:
01 Jean-Pierre Nicolas F Jean Todt F Alpine-Renault A110 1800 S
02 Bernard Fiorentino F Berbery F Simca CG MC
03 Estanislao Reverter E Ventura E Alpine-Porsche Prototype
04 Sobiesław Zasada PL Ryszard Nowicki PL BMW 2002 TI
05
06 Sandro Munari I Mario Mannucci I Lancia Fulvia Rally HF 1600
07
08
09
10
Regards
Janusz
And some more Spanish rallies:
RACE 1972
01 Salvador Canellas E Daniel Ferrater E SEAT 124 Spyder
02 M. Juncosa E D. Monaco E SEAT 1410
03 José Pavon E Ricardo Antolin E Alpine-Renault A110 1600 S
RACE 1973
01 Jorge Babler E Ricardo Antolin E SEAT 1430-1800
RACE 1974
01. Antonio Zanini E Eduardo Martinez Adam E SEAT 1430-1800
02. Juan-Carlos Pradera E R. Comyn E SEAT 1430-1800
03. Estanislao Reverter E A. Reverter E BMW 2002 TII
RACE 1975
01. Antonio Zanini E Eduardo Martinez Adam E SEAT 1430-1800
02. Claude Haldi CH Bernard Sandoz CH Porsche Carrera RS
03. Sainz E Zovita E Alpine-Renault A110 1800 S
04. Salvador Canellas E Daniel Ferrater E SEAT 1430 proto
05. Marc Etchebers E Christine Etchebers E BMW 2002 TII
Regards
Janusz
Janusz,Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
then, the right spelling is Øehák or Rehak?
Carles.
Janusz,Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
I've not specified 'cause is like you've stated: Krzysztof.
Also, I've not precised on Ragnotti / Thimonier 'cause they are well known.
Carles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
Carles.
In my opinion the right form is Rehák (with that little chevron above the "R"). That's funny as in my post preview I can see that name in the right form and when I am in the Forum it is wrong "Øehák". (To be precise - as I am not sure if you see it the same way as I do - when on Forum that special "R" changes to that norwegian/danish slashed "O".Quote:
Originally Posted by Carles Bosch 2
Regards
Janusz
Thank you Carles for precising names I wrote. My intention was also to ask for those names I don't have in the results. Is it possible?
By the occasion Canellas and Zanini were often doing Rajd Polski in late 70's. There on the entry list they sometimes existed in the strange forms like:
In 1976 it was: Sans Zanini/Petisco Garay what later was known as Antonio Zanini/Juan José Petisco, Salvador G. Canellas/Daniel T. Ferrater; May you explain what it was with Zanini and Petisco and meannings of the extra initials in Canellas / de Ferrater names?
Regards
Janusz
.. and one more question to Carles concerning Spanish drivers in Poland: in 1977 Salvador Servia was co-driven by Jordi Sabater, in 1980 Zanini's co-driver was called Jorge Sabater. Are those two different people or...? I know there was Victor Sabater, too. May you explain that, please?
Warm regards
Janusz
Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
Carles.
I'll try to explain the little mistery: the full name of Zanini is Antonio (first name) Zanini (father's family name) Sans (mother's family name). In Spain usually the people are known for his first name and the father's family name, but the full name (with the first and second family names) is used in all the official documents like the ID, the passport or the driving license. So, sometimes, if the person who type the drivers names in the entry lists don'y know the usual form (Antonio Zanini) can type also Zanini Sans or Antonio Zanini Sans.Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
The case of Petisco is the same, with Juan José as fist name.
On Salvador Cañellas, the G. must stand for his "second" first name, like José in the case of Juan José Petisco.
On Ferrater the T. must be the same: a "second" first name, like the french Jean-Pierre. In the case of Ferrater his father's family name is De Ferrater, like Van or Von in the Netherlands or Deutschland. So the correct spelling of Ferrater's name is Daniel de Ferrater.
Hope this helps,
Carles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by januszsz
Jordi (in catalan) or Jorge (in spanish) are the same guy, while Víctor is his brother. Both are from Barcelona and in the case of Víctor there's no confusion 'cause both in catalan or spanish the name is spelled and sounds exactly.
The problem with the names in spanish or catalan comes from the 40 years of Franco's dictature 'cause the catalan was banned and all the catalan names in official documents were translated to spanish.
There are a lot of cases, in racing or rallying, like Joan (Juan) Fernández, Pere (Pedro) Nogués, Jordi (Jorge) Catón, Josep María (José María) Fernández -Joan's brother-, Josep María (José María) Servià -Salvador's brother-.
Carles.
Thank you Carles for "Sunday School of Spanish Rallying History" - very interesting lessons.
Warm regards
Janusz
MY BIT OF HISTORY
www.euw938v.co.uk
Well, I have 2 Mk2 Escorts for sale, one has done just as many International rallies! I would accept a tenth of the price!
On a serious note, can the forum operators please clarify the rules about what are really adverts on the site? - and perhaps remove advertising posts to a separate place?
I know we have no right to have this thread kept solely for historical rally results, just rally history, but a convention has built up over a very long time that it is for that purpose alone and I'm sure most of those using it regularly would prefer it to continue in that form. We have already had rallycross posts put into a separate thread.
And here's some 1978 world championship questions:
At San Remo, Vudafieri-Mannini & Bettega-Torghele works crews entered by Lancia Pirelli or...?
At Corsica, Vudafieri-Scabini works crew entered by Lancia Pirelli or...?
I believe Bettega-Vacchetto were a Lancia Pirelli works crew.
Also, does anyone know the entrant of Lancia Stratos of Blomqvist-Sylvan at Swedish, and of Darniche-Mahe at Portugal?
And finally (for now), what was the entrant of Porsches 911 of Waldegard-Thorszelius & Preston-Lyall at Safari, and what was Markku Alen driving on RAC, 131 or Stratos?
Thank you.
Alen was in Stratos for 78 RAC (and it was the year Rohrl's 131 had Geisdorfer sitting in the back!).
I think the Stratos had lost the 4 valve per cylinder heads by that year following changes to Appendix J. Alen persuaded Lancia to enter one again in 79 but that was a cobbled-together car (an ex-Darniche Chardonnay car?). He went well in both years but with 12 valves it was no longer capable of dominating.
Thanks FAL. I just don't understand how was it possible that Lancia Stratos was entered by Alitalia Fiat?
About the other questions, anybody?
jorge, what's going on with you? I need your help man! :(
Probably the same deal as with the Waldegard entry in 76. Fiat probably wanted Alen in a 131 and originally entered him in that. Fiat and Lancia were the same group by then and internal poilitics was demanding Fiat did rallies, Lancia did sportscar racing and Ferrari did F1. Alen had a lot of influence and wanted to win the RAC in a Stratos so persuaded the team to let him drive one - but that late they could only change the car, not the entrant.
It's usually said that the end of the Stratos in rallying was brought about by this internal politics - but it's not as simple as that as the changes to Appendix J had stopped the Stratos using the 4 valve heads and it was no longer as quick.
Photos of 78 RAC - link just posted on another forum:
http://www.netikka.net/kp-rallyteam/rac178.htm
Thanks again FAL. Very nice pics!
I was amazed to see the spelling on the Fords! It says Eaton's Yale on Waldegard's car, and Eaton Yale on Mikkola's!
Is it really a mistake or what?
BTW Does anybody know what's up with jorge? It would seem he's not around lately. I hope everything is OK?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaps
I've just seen several Jorge's posts in another forum (@ the french http://www.forum-auto.com), so I suppose everything's OK.
Carles.
Proves they were finished in two different places by different people!
The real joke is that it was not really sponsorship in the conventional way - it was part of a negotiated deal/price for Ford buying Yale fork lift trucks from the Eaton Corporation for use in its factories.
Someone knows.....
?? ?? 1961 - 2° Rally Vltava
Start: Praha
Finish: Praha
km. 311
grand touring cars - touring cars
national rally
Results:
1. M.???? Halada - V.???? Janatka (Fiat 600)
2. J.???? Janout - ???? ???? (Skoda Octavia Super)
3. Jiri Srnski - ???? ???? (Skoda Octavia Super)
?? ?? 1962 - 3° Rally Vltava
Start: Praha
Finish: Praha
km. 304
grand touring cars - touring cars
national rally
Results:
1. Alois Mark - Z.???? Raska (Tatra 603)
2. Jaroslav Fac - Lubomir Rek (Tatra 603)
3. Vladimir Hubacek - P.???? Svejda (Skoda Octavia Super)
?? ?? 1963 - 4° Rally Vltava
Start: Praha
Finish: Karlove Vary
km. 1480
grand touring cars - touring cars
czech rally championship
national rally
Results:
1. Zdenek Treybal - L.???? Sekac (Saab ???)
2. ???? Egemova - ???? Somr (Fiat Abarth ???)
3. Jaroslav Bobek - Leo Hnatevic (Skoda ???)
Thanks in advance
Giorgio
I'm allright Kaps !
regards
jorge
I was looking for the final times in :
Monte Carlo 89 (between 88th and 109th)
Monte Carlo 92 (between 77th and 86th)
Monte Carlo 93 (between 87th and 106th)
Thanks
jorge
Nothing more to add except of Srnsky not Srnski.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giorgio
Regards
Janusz
Very nice to see you're up and running jorge!
Thanks also to Carles & FAL.
BTW Recently I started to use Forum Sport Auto site quite often and I managed to find pics of Bettega at 1978 San Remo & Corse, which clearly show that he was in a works Stratos on both of them.
I also found out that Mouton-Conconi at 1978 Monte Carlo, were in a Chardonnet-entered Stratos.
I couldn't, however, find anything about Vudafieri on San Remo & Corse rallies.
Please, does anyone know about the entrants of Blomqvist's Stratos at Swedish and Darniche's at Portugal, the entrants of Mercedeses at Safari (Zasada-Krupa, Singh-Doig, Cowan-Syer, Fawkes-Kaiser, all privateers?) and the entrants of Citroen CX 2400s at Portugal (Toivonen-Pajanen, Luc-Alessandrini, Romaozinho-Bernardo), Acropolis (Toivinen-Pajanen, Luc-Charbonnier, Nicolas-Laverne, Trautmann-Roch) and 1000 Lakes (Luc-Luparia).
I hadn't noticed before but I think it's to ensure correct English grammer! The pictures are taken from different sides of the cars. I have just checked a model I have of Mikkola's car and the wording is "lift trucks from Eaton Yale" on the left side. The wording on the right side is "Eaton's Yale lift trucks". Assuming that this model is an accurate reflection of the actual car then both Mikkola's & Waldegard's would have been the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaps