Renault investigated by FIA !

Ok, can I remind everyone that the first time around the FIA chose to give McLeran a conditional discharge, and initially let them walk when McLeran claimed to not have used or even attempted to use the Ferrari information? And it wasn't until more evidence and emails that FIA realised they where lied too and decided to throw the book at them?

Also why does everyone throw the $100 million fine around as if that was fact? That figure was the combined fine, and loss of revenues for finishing 1st in the constructor, and as everyone should already know, thanks to Alonso's little prank he pulled on Hamilton during some qualifying pit stops and the subsequent penalty McLeran received for that, they would have finished second making the combined hit on them I believe only $55 Million or so (Not sure if I'll be able to dig up the article I read that in)

Also why do I think that evidence uncovered by italian police should hold a little bit more weight then eveidence produced by a 3rd party detective agency hired by Mcleran?

If this proves to be nothing more then a Mcleran stirring up $hit, then I hope the FIA reconsider banning them for 2008 for bringing the sport into even more disrepute!!!

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Ok, can I remind everyone that the first time around the FIA chose to give McLeran a conditional discharge, and initially let them walk when McLeran claimed to not have used or even attempted to use the Ferrari information? And it wasn't until more evidence and emails that FIA realised they where lied too and decided to throw the book at them?

Also why does everyone throw the $100 million fine around as if that was fact? That figure was the combined fine, and loss of revenues for finishing 1st in the constructor, and as everyone should already know, thanks to Alonso's little prank he pulled on Hamilton during some qualifying pit stops and the subsequent penalty McLeran received for that, they would have finished second making the combined hit on them I believe only $55 Million or so (Not sure if I'll be able to dig up the article I read that in)

Also why do I think that evidence uncovered by italian police should hold a little bit more weight then eveidence produced by a 3rd party detective agency hired by Mcleran?

If this proves to be nothing more then a Mcleran stirring up $hit, then I hope the FIA reconsider banning them for 2008 for bringing the sport into even more disrepute!!!

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The offset on the fine is to stop the penalty being $150m. McLaren have $100m less than they would have had, that is the punishment.

Ferrari asked the Italian prosecutor for permission to use the phone message data, and they refused. Ferrari used it anyway, and McLaren are now suing them in Italy for illegal use of that data.

There is no chance that Renault did not use illegal McLaren data. Also it seems Flav did not tell them, they found out from an engineer they recruited from Renault. And it is serious, F1-Live is saying "One insider told The Independent newspaper: "The amount and depth of the information (found at Renault) makes 'Stepneygate' look like a walk in the park."

So hopefully the hysteria whipped up by Ferrari and Max about the comparatively trivial goings on in McLaren will be brought into a more sensible perspective.

Renault could be in deep trouble, unless Max fudges it for them. In that case, Max could be in deep trouble.

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Originally Posted by passmeatissue

The offset on the fine is to stop the penalty being $150m. McLaren have $100m less than they would have had, that is the punishment.

Ferrari asked the Italian prosecutor for permission to use the phone message data, and they refused. Ferrari used it anyway, and McLaren are now suing them in Italy for illegal use of that data.

There is no chance that Renault did not use illegal McLaren data. Also it seems Flav did not tell them, they found out from an engineer they recruited from Renault. And it is serious, F1-Live is saying "One insider told The Independent newspaper: "The amount and depth of the information (found at Renault) makes 'Stepneygate' look like a walk in the park."

So hopefully the hysteria whipped up by Ferrari and Max about the comparatively trivial goings on in McLaren will be brought into a more sensible perspective.

Renault could be in deep trouble, unless Max fudges it for them. In that case, Max could be in deep trouble.

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So you think cheating should just happen and it's all good?

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Originally Posted by passmeatissue

F1-Live is saying "One insider told The Independent newspaper: "The amount and depth of the information (found at Renault) makes 'Stepneygate' look like a walk in the park."

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Here's the Independent's story.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

So you think cheating should just happen and it's all good?

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Take something I did say, then we can debate it.

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Originally Posted by passmeatissue

Take something I did say, then we can debate it.

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What did McLaren do? What are Renault rumoured to have done? CHEATING. Is that trivial? or OK? No!

Renault gonna go bankrupt with a 100million fine..

how can you combat one of your thousand employee steal information from the work place and sells it to a competitor? well..sacking is the only thing can happen of the employee both side, WHY PUNISHING THE TEAM AS A WHOLE????
this is ridiculous because there going to be toomany childish-moaners going to riseup with such complaints race after race! i bet next year ferrari is going to comeup with saying Ron's engineers were spying on thier garage with high tech surveilance binaculars..therefore uncle max going to deduct points of mclaren team.. then Tororosso boss going to complain that some team nicked his lollypop or taken a picture of his cars and wants to sue them..

each and every team in every sport always lookout for what is going around in the fellow teams and ARE keen to know technical stuffs etc.. none are innocents including ferrari's.. thats the way sport works for long time and it is the team principal to makesure the security of his own teams stuffs by taking responsibility of it than start blaming around others. it is childish.

hehe.. F1 sucks nowdays..

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

Renault gonna go bankrupt with a 100million fine..

how can you combat one of your thousand employee steal information from the work place and sells it to a competitor? well..sacking is the only thing can happen of the employee both side, WHY PUNISHING THE TEAM AS A WHOLE????
this is ridiculous because there going to be toomany childish-moaners going to riseup with such complaints race after race! i bet next year ferrari is going to comeup with saying Ron's engineers were spying on thier garage with high tech surveilance binaculars..therefore uncle max going to deduct points of mclaren team.. then Tororosso boss going to complain that some team nicked his lollypop or taken a picture of his cars and wants to sue them..

each and every team in every sport always lookout for what is going around in the fellow teams and ARE keen to know technical stuffs etc.. none are innocents including ferrari's.. thats the way sport works for long time and it is the team principal to makesure the security of his own teams stuffs by taking responsibility of it than start blaming around others. it is childish.

hehe.. F1 sucks nowdays..

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As has been stated ad nauseum it is NOT solely the responsibility of the team to make sure their data is safe. Of course they have to take all reasonable precautions but at the end of the day it's the responsibility of teams and their employees do not use any data from other teams. As I said before the only way to ensure the data is completely safe would be to seal it in a concrete block and drop it into the marianas trench. Now if you can show me a way of running a team while your data is miles underwater then you're a genius but sadly no team can operate with 100% security and that's a fact. If it's just sour grapes because your team was cheating and did their best not to win the drivers title then that's not my problem or Ferrari's problem.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

What did McLaren do? What are Renault rumoured to have done? CHEATING. Is that trivial? or OK? No!

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Well, there is a level of copying that everyone accepts - photographs, sound recording, debriefing new recruits. So "cheating" is not an on/off thing that starts at zero.

What we know about McLaren's use of Ferrari information is...

There was a 780 page dossier which was a blueprint for a team, but McLaren don't need a blueprint, and there's no evidence that it was used at all.
An email about tyre gas which was immediately poo-poohed by Brdigestone.
Emails about weight distribution which only showed that Ferrari and McLaren cars were completely different in concept, to the point where the simulator couldn't emulate the Ferraris, they were off the scale.
Emails about pitstop plans.
There was a lot text and phone traffic but no-one knows what was said. It couldn't have contained any detailed data, though.
McLaren told some lies at the hearing, trying to deny any wrongdoing at all. They should have admitted what did happen.

This was wrong, clearly, but trivial. There is no evidence that the McLaren car benefitted from this. The 2007 car had already been designed long before, so di Montezemolo's cracks about the McLaren being a Ferrari in disguise were just unsporting off-track hostility. McLaren offered to let the FIA inspect the car, and the FIA didn't want to. Everything else is speculation and you can't issue punishments on that basis.

Renault, by contrast, had at least 7 McLaren-logoed documents on their computer system, and there were several specific parts on their 2007 car which were copied from the McLaren data and used through the season.

So having set the bar at $100m and no contsructors points for what McLaren did, Max is in trouble now to be consistent without losing Renault altogether.

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

Renault gonna go bankrupt with a 100million fine..

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Bollocks, again.

I'm no Renault fan,not F1 nor road cars division. But they are financially stronger than Mercedes.