What Happens Next?

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Originally Posted by heelntoe

Sanguin, you simply don't understand the principals of CCWS or the business of Champcar at all, IMO. Champcar is MOST DEFINITELY in dire straights and this has nothing to do with my opinion, rumor or spin as they do a great job proving themselves out through their own actions. I am not defensive about the IRL, I simply stated that a focus on the question at hand and not on the IRL is what's necessary at this point.

I have been in business with the Amigos...I have been employed by the former owner of the Cleveland race, have had multiple hard cards and spend my working days negotiating sponsorship...I do NOT spin anything as any information I have is from those who actually work within the sport or I qualify it's what is heard but not confirmed...the operator of this forum is where the Red Bull story originated, so I would point your critique at him on that point...as far as bashing CCWS, I am simply a frustrated former supporter whose first hand experience with the series resulted in my watching the recent operations very closely.

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Heard all that before. How long are you going to use this schtick?

Sponsors come and go, surely the IRL has lost a lot of them too, like Klein Tools?Are they in dire straits? Red Bull may or not stay, they may be overextended in F1 and their failing nascar program. Will it end CC? no,and if you think so ,then you don't know what you're talking about. All you have is an opinion, no facts.

See you 2008

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Heard all that before. How long are you going to use this schtick?

Sponsors come and go, surely the IRL has lost a lot of them too, like Klein Tools?Are they in dire straits? Red Bull may or not stay, they may be overextended in F1 and their failing nascar program. Will it end CC? no,and if you think so ,then you don't know what you're talking about. All you have is an opinion, no facts.

See you 2008

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Heelntoe has proven himself knowledgable in this forum for a long time. I think its safe to say, he knows more than you do. His opinions are more credible than your facts.

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Originally Posted by OWFan19

Heelntoe has proven himself knowledgable in this forum for a long time. I think its safe to say, he knows more than you do. His opinions are more credible than your facts.

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HUH? this forum has some funny rules. :s mokin:

Some interesting comments are appearing and I agree with Chaparral66 and heelntoe.

Bottom line: Unification is an obvious and inevitable outcome… one way or another.

Okay I don't agree with Sanquin. But hey, I do "get it". I just won't blindly buy into the ego-driven confidence game being played. I know the Amigos and have seen them in action. I am still awestruck by the experience... in a very negative way. I am not alone.

Sanguin, so you blindly believe in "the plan". Are you one of the Amigos? Or... do you work for them? Or are you Mark Cippolini, Werner Fritz or that sage of all motorsports sages, E.Rasmussen Holm?

Okay, you can believe what you want. I have worked many years in a side of the racing industry that has given me experience enough to feel confident in believing what I do--so here goes: I can't help but believe that the evidence is mounting to suggests that doing business with ChampCar and The Amigos could be unproductive. Especially if you are a race promoter.

I don't know if all the rumored bad news that is supposedly coming for ChampCar is really true but the constant volume and detail of it is hard to ignore and probably repellant to those likely to invest in the sport. From what I repeatedly have witnessed, those who do ignore the warnings tend to have a nasty multi-million dollar surprise waiting for them when things don't pan out as promised. Witness the Vegas money pit, the China meltdown and the Phoenix flop. Oh, I almost forgot Denver... an event that went from being a poster child, being used to sell new promoters, to being, um, "postponed" (I love that word in this context). How do the Amigos expect to make progress in the face of this?

All of this is truly tragic and it ultimately hurts everyone who works in the sport on both sides of the split because it goes under the headline of “another open wheel disaster”.

But why I started this thread wasn't about that. It was about what comes next...

Will it be more of the same "wait until next year, new markets, bla bla bla" or something more sensible and worth believing for a change?

Something like a unified series with a bright future perhaps?

So, what comes next?

It is truth or consequences time.

I find it almost funny how many folks here who are industry insiders hiding behind some pseudonym. They switch roles from telling us everything that is wrong, to telling us how wrong we are, to asking us where things are going to go next and then back full circle to telling us how wrong everything is and how wrong we are with anything we might suggest or offer.

You know it is so easy to say how connected you are and make yourself seem so "in the know" and important. But if you "connected" folks are so all knowing why in the hell are you here asking the FANS what is going to happen next? Do you REALLY want us to answer that rhetorical question? No you want us to play the straight man so you can shoot our ideas full of holes.

So lets just stop this silliness and turn the tables. If the good Doctor, HeelnToe and all the rest of you self absorbed insiders know so much, what does happen next? Be specific, I mean after all you guys are so connected hell you should be able to name names, give dates, quote budgets etc. To paraphrase the good doctor who said: its truth or consequences time, I say it's put up or shut up time.

Gary

If they're CCWS insiders, then read my posts for the answer :D

Denver was a great example of taking something sucessful, and ruining it.

As to what happens next,

I cant see any businessman with half a brain looking at this series anymore and considering it a good investment. Even if its B2B.

You have to get rid of most if not all upper management. The Three amigos need to either sell or figure out a point man and let them make the calls. You cant have three generals fighting this war. Thats why PG is bringing in questionable sponsors, and GF is saying no. Merging doesnt solve the problem, I see teams making a switch. The IRL promotes much better, because Champ Car doesnt promote at all. People actually know some of the IRL drivers. Their T.V package is much better. They have the IRL seems to have its stuff together with sponsorships, as there are more sponsors in that series. People complain about TG, but PG is a thug. He has a horrible reputation, notoriously doesnt pay his bills(still owes KK money). I can see why sponsors dont want anything to do with him (hench the spilt of Rsports). The Indy 500, CC fans hate on it because they dont have it. Yet its the largest sporting event in the world.

I dont want a merger. I dont want any of the amatuers that have basically ruined Champ Car doing the same thing with the IRL. They dont deserve anything in racing, other than being a team owner. Just because they can afford to run a racing series, doesnt mean they are qualified to run it.

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Originally Posted by DrJackMiller

All of this is truly tragic and it ultimately hurts everyone who works in the sport on both sides of the split because it goes under the headline of “another open wheel disaster”.

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You could have said that at season's end beginning twelve years ago, and said it every year thereafter.

There are many questions. But three I have are:

#1) Can the sport be saved?
#2) Is it worth saving?
#3) How many sports fans will really care either way?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

You could have said that at season's end beginning twelve years ago, and said it every year thereafter.

There are many questions. But three I have are:

#1) Can the sport be saved?
#2) Is it worth saving?
#3) How many sports fans will really care either way?

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1. Yes, with the appropriate changes I believe CCWS will be very marketable, distinct and unique. It starts with the cars.
2. Yes! It has potential that hasn't been realised.
3. Not many at the moment, but that can change!

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

1. Yes, with the appropriate changes I believe CCWS will be very marketable, distinct and unique. It starts with the cars.
2. Yes! It has potential that hasn't been realised.
3. Not many at the moment, but that can change!

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There is a saying, if a tree farts in the woods and nowbody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

The car doesnt make a difference if the generalized audience doesnt know about it.