2021 Race 1 Bahrain

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

The mentality of winning by hook or crook does not impress me. That should not be the ethos of the sport.

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I'm really surprised to see you say that, as I thought you were a MS fan.
I think the main reason Max gave the place back (and so quickly) was because he thought he had the time and the car to get the pass done again, properly. So give it back the sooner the better so he'd have more time to attack. As it turns out, he didn't pull it off...but I still think he did the right thing. He is starting to show more and more signs of maturity, and I'm starting to dislike him less.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

In my opinion it was wrong of Max to give up his position after the overtake. Better the stewards decided after the race.

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I have to disagree with that. I don't ever like it when it's decided after the race, especially if it's for the win.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

In my opinion it was wrong of Max to give up his position after the overtake. Better the stewards decided after the race.

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I think Red Bull did the right thing. The stewards were most likely going to penalize him if he didn't give it back. By giving it back, he still had a few laps left that could have actually still won the race.

That being said, you have to hand it to Hamilton. He defended well and made it that the only way Max was passing at that time was off the track. Also, there is data showing that Hamilton was superior in taking care of his tires. Max tire degradation was 2x hire than Hamilton. Plus I think Max had some "red mist" after having to give the position back and he just didn't drive as well.

I have watched this race again and l have to say this was a fantastic race. It is quite clear that Verstappen and the Redbull car is the combination to beat this season. It is also very clear that the chassis regulations has disadvantaged the low rake cars of Mercedes and Aston Martin significantly. There would always be the thought behind our minds as to whether the F1 establishment did it to slow down the Mercedes or give the high rakes of Redbull, Ferrari and Mclaren a chance to be closer to the Mercedes. Whatever the case, we have a cracker of a season ahead.

Hamilton displayed a masterclass drive where he displayed supreme defensive driving on 11 laps older tyres than Verstappen, soaking up immense pressure and wearing out Verstappen's tyres in the process. The true measure of his driving is that he won the race with nearly a full second ahead of a faster Verstappen. Judging by how worn out Verstappen's tyres were, l wonder if he would have won the race if he had not given the place back. Because, after that turn four trip off the track, his tyres got much worst than Hamilton's. There is a good chance that Hamilton may have passed him back, we would never know.

This was a race fought between the fastest drivers of the season without the interference of their wingmen. Bottas finished 3rd but was a good 20 minutes behind the front runners. It was a race won by the driver and not really the car. And makes the point that having the fastest car helps, but it takes more than the car sometimes to win. And both drivers in different ways showed that very point.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Two of the greatest driver the chaps at Sky say, referring to Hamilton and Verstappen. That made me chuckle a bit. How they lower the bar for greatness so easily.

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Hamilton has 7 WDC’s - hardly a low bar.

Max on the other hand has a lot to prove. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually turns out a bit like Vettel. RBR have this tendency to overhype and spoil one driver. Max believes his own press now that he is one of the GOATs. He has to prove it and he’s very far away from doing that.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Hamilton has 7 WDC’s - hardly a low bar.

Max on the other hand has a lot to prove. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually turns out a bit like Vettel. RBR have this tendency to overhype and spoil one driver. Max believes his own press now that he is one of the GOATs. He has to prove it and he’s very far away from doing that.

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My point exactly. It is ridiculous to call someone "one of the greatest drivers" before they win an F1 world championship title. that would make the entire grid "one of the greatest drivers". It is insulting to the seven times world champion l find. WTF.

It was said by someone that has never won an F1 drivers world title, so l guess they don't properly appreciate what it takes to win one of those.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Bottas,37 minutes behind the leading pair.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Bottas finished 3rd but was a good 20 minutes behind the front runners.

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Well, he's almost halved the difference since Sunday, so that's a good thing.
Still, twenty minutes is a long time. Didn't Hamilton and Verstappen get bored waiting for Bottas to finally turn up for the podium ceremony?

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I agree, they would have had the opportunity to argue the point. But they would be arguing the point with stewards whose warning has been ignored as well as a strongly complaining Mercedes. They would start the season with bad blood with the stewards. And the stewards have discretionary additional points that they are allowed to dish out where they find it would serve to discourage their warnings from being ignored. The Redbull pit wall made the right call under the circumstances. For Verstappen supporters, l can see why they would feel that he has been hard done by. But that is not the case.

This is one of those things that is fraught with controversy either way. If Verstappen had won the race by ignoring the Stewards, he would have gained an advantage by ignoring the stewards as he would not have won the race otherwise, as the final outcome shows. And Mercedes would argue that point strongly. It would be a dodgy win and it surprises me that Verstappen suggested it in the first place. The mentality of winning by hook or crook does not impress me. That should not be the ethos of the sport.

You could argue the Mercedes were exceeding track limits for most of the race. But there was no clear infringement at that stage of the race as they were led to believe it was ok to do that. Hence, it would not be fair to suggest that they cheated in any way.

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The stewards are expected to be impartial .
If Max and his team believed they were not guilty of an infraction , and believed they had reason to question the call , they had every right to let Max go , and sort it out afterwards .

They were warned and they complied .
But the stewards were there to listen to any complaint without bias , as this situation was anything but clear .
If there was any "bad blood" with the stewards caused by this , then it would be Red Bull that would have a complaint .

If they had taken that route , but were able to prove they didn't deserve penalty , there would never have been anything "dodgy" about it .

And , I'm not surprised at all that Max suggested it , as I've already suggested he may have had a point .

And , finally , Nitro , "dodgy" is perhaps a word that could be used when a team exceeds track limits for a large portion of the race when all the others were respecting the boundaries .
The FIA believed it was necessary to place that limit on that particular corner because of potential time gain .
All the teams , including Merc would have understood that the FIA didn't want you going wide there , but because the FIA missed saying "during the race" , Merc chose to take advantage .
That could be seen as a bit "dodgy" , and maybe against the intentions of the stewards , but not technically illegal .
If anything would cause that "bad blood" scenario that you mentioned , it would be "taking the mick" in this way .

They stopped when they were warned , so technically no foul , but there was , indeed ,"clear infringement" , as they were warned in the first place .

To be clear , I am still impressed by the fact that they took the high road , and had Max comply with the order .

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Originally Posted by gm99

Well, he's almost halved the difference since Sunday, so that's a good thing.
Still, twenty minutes is a long time. Didn't Hamilton and Verstappen get bored waiting for Bottas to finally turn up for the podium ceremony?

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Come on, one has to factor in the time lost to the crap pitstop. I suppose you would like everyone to screen all your posts from now on.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The stewards are expected to be impartial .
If Max and his team believed they were not guilty of an infraction , and believed they had reason to question the call , they had every right to let Max go , and sort it out afterwards .

They were warned and they complied .
But the stewards were there to listen to any complaint without bias , as this situation was anything but clear .
If there was any "bad blood" with the stewards caused by this , then it would be Red Bull that would have a complaint .

If they had taken that route , but were able to prove they didn't deserve penalty , there would never have been anything "dodgy" about it .

And , I'm not surprised at all that Max suggested it , as I've already suggested he may have had a point .

And , finally , Nitro , "dodgy" is perhaps a word that could be used when a team exceeds track limits for a large portion of the race when all the others were respecting the boundaries .
The FIA believed it was necessary to place that limit on that particular corner because of potential time gain .
All the teams , including Merc would have understood that the FIA didn't want you going wide there , but because the FIA missed saying "during the race" , Merc chose to take advantage .
That could be seen as a bit "dodgy" , and maybe against the intentions of the stewards , but not technically illegal .
If anything would cause that "bad blood" scenario that you mentioned , it would be "taking the mick" in this way .

They stopped when they were warned , so technically no foul , but there was , indeed ,"clear infringement" , as they were warned in the first place .

To be clear , I am still impressed by the fact that they took the high road , and had Max comply with the order .

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I wonder how you would expect them to have any sort of conversation that would result in anything other than a five to ten seconds penalty if they ignored the warning of the stewards. I don't understand your reasoning. It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you. He would get many, so hang on until the next race.
But l am sorry to say, the Redbull team did the right thing. Ignoring stewards warning is not going to endear them to the stewards.

Winning by going off track and ignoring the steward's warning in the process, would suggest that Redbull operates to different set of rules to the rest of the grid.