Nick Heidfeld, 2000-2001. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
Amazing what an unexpectedly good car can do for your confidence.
Possibly Eddie Irvine 1994-1995 too?
Printable View
Nick Heidfeld, 2000-2001. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
Amazing what an unexpectedly good car can do for your confidence.
Possibly Eddie Irvine 1994-1995 too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
It's not really dislike and vitriol! I do actually like him and I say this and that he's good. I'm sorry that it's come across that way and I guess that's my fault. And I would say if there is one driver I could be wrong about, it's him.
this post is to clarify that the tone wasn't really meant the way it came across, and that I don't think he sucks. It's not that I'm trying to pull him down! It's that I feel things are a bit out of balance so I am using counter-arguments to try to show the other side too.
In 2012, he was pretty evenly matched with his team-mate in qualifying, and got the highest grid slot (2nd at Spa), but then Perez was denied pole at Silverstone. Kobayashi did outqualify Perez in 2011, but to be fair it was the 21yr old Mexican's first season, and my understanding is it normally takes a few seasons to really learn how to do well in F1. It wouldn't be right for me to say Ralf Schumacher was better than Jenson Button because he outqualified him by 0.504sec in his first season and just leave it at that.
I should have said that Kobayashi did suffer from misfortune especially in 2012, but then so also did Sergio: What could Perez have done at Barcelona having been Grosjeaned? At Silverstone, he was on course to finish ahead of his team-mate before being Maldonadoed - what could he have done if he had started from pole? Perez was also robbed of 6th in Melbourne on the last lap, having started last. But I have wondered that if Sergio made the tyre strategy work so well, couldn't Kamui have done it at least once?
I only say these things because I feel things are out of balance. It's like when Bobby Rahal said about Montoya "I think... he is the kind of driver you only get once every two generations" or something like that. Montoya was very good, but for goodness sake that was a bit much I think. I think this sort of thing is unfair on drivers who have earned the right to be regarded well, that someone should just be fast-tracked ahead of better drivers simply because he's exciting and spectacular (those are great things btw).
I feel the same when a lot of people say Chandhok is better than Bruno Senna. The facts say otherwise I'm afraid i.e. 7-3 qualifying to Bruno. I like Karun's personality too, but for me, it contributes nothing to his actual driving ability. It comes down to me feeling it's not very fair I guess.
To make it plain, I currently rate these 2014 drivers ahead. But I feel Kamui is already pretty equal with some and has more scope to improve, so can move up, overtaking Sutil and Massa. Though this doesn't include where Bianchi, Vergne and Magnussen may end up, if they improve.
In (sort of) no particular order:
1.Vettel
2.Alonso
3.Hamilton
4.Raikkonen
5.Rosberg
6.Hulkenberg
7.Button
8.Grosjean
9.Ricciardo
10.Bottas
11.Sutil
12.Perez
13.Massa
14.Kobayashi
I just get frustrated in particular that there is a feeling he should get a Ferrari drive ahead of Hulkenberg, as to me that seems very unfair; when he's regarded as top material when I haven't seen evidence of that, just of him being around where I've put him, just one amongst other very good drivers who in the right circumstances are capable of great things. I'll say again I think he will overhaul Massa and Sutil at some point.
The tyre strategies being turned down in favour of Perez is news to me though. Now that is something to think about. If Kobayashi can shine at Caterham and show what he's capable of, I'll be happy to make some revisions.
Now this is a very good point actually. The Brazilian GP 2009 was actually the first race I watched in exactly 2 years(!) and I saw what this guy did, getting Jenson upset when he was doing nothing wrong - just racing! I remember feeling it was pretty harsh when John Howett said his actual pace was a bit disappointing, or something like that. He came a good 10th when lots of good drivers finished. I didn't watch Abu Dhabi but to see he came 6th ahead of Trulli in his second race, now that was impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I remember at the time noticing Kobayashi scored more points in an unreliable Sauber than Hulkenberg did in the Williams in 2010. He also matched Pedro de la Rosa (more of a qualifier than a racer) for pace.
Maybe that's the sort of driver who should get a better drive.
So why did he seem to fade? Because I think early 2011 was again very impressive? Does anybody have more about the true story of Kobayashi's 2012? Because the way I saw it, it was a season with high points. The only problem was, almost every driver had highs too, and it just seemed that Kamui was a bit lost and invisible a bit too much amongst other's high points. But there is room to revise this perception. Let's see.
Its extraordinary comments like this that I do not understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
You claim Perez was denied pole at Silverstone. How so? He was fastest at one point during Q2. That doesn't make pole I'm afraid although I do agree that both Sauber drivers were looking at very good qualifying positions if the team had made the right call. But denied pole, really? I was under the mistaken impression that you had to make it to Q3 first to stand any chance of getting pole. Perez didn't.
And through most of 2012 too. You fail to mention that Perez had to try odd tyre strategies because he had failed to qualify adequately and had to make the most out of being out of position in a quick car at the back of the grid.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
You realise that Kamui's tyre calls were often overruled right?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
Also lets flip that around. At Suzuka Kamui qualified well, raced well and finished well. That is a good old fashioned race weekend performance. Name a single time Perez managed the same? He never managed to string a good quali and race together did he.
Anyway it seems you have a problem with the way he is described by other posters rather than the guy himself, I wouldn't get bothered by that so much...
Kobayashi had several good chances over 2012, qualifying third in China and second in Spa. Problem was that in the first race he had to start on an oil patch from an earlier race, had wheelspin and dropped back while at Spa the entire right side of his car was damaged thanks to the huge accident started by Grosjean. In Sepang he complained through FP3 and quali that something was broken at the back of his car, his team disagreed until they found a broken suspension component. Although that was fixed for the race his setup was then completely off and a tyre change call he made during the race was overruled. Again without those issues how would he have done on a day when the Sauber did have the pace to win? Who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
He actually did extremely well in his consistent way over 2012, almost matching his teammate Perez who had scored almost all of his points in just four or five races. Kobayashi just had consistent but low end points finishes through the season. Had he been luckier in China or Spa (or both) he would have looked a lot better and caught the eye more. Then he finished the season with his performance at Suzuka, a difficult track to perform well on. Unfortunately though with his lack of sponsorship he wasn't going to survive on merely matching his sponsor-laden teammate.
Ok. Hopefully if he is capable of better than 2012 may have appeared, he can have a chance to show it. I also have concerns about what at the time I saw was a slightly Fisi-esque shrinking back when his team-mate appeared to be doing strongly. I hope this is wrong, but it's an impression I got. Koba is on the back foot having missed out on a season, but I am hoping to see a hard-trying plucky attitude like Kovalainen in 2010-11. I don't really follow Sauber that closely but I do take a real interest in Caterham so I'll keep an eye out. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
As for Perez, well he didn't manage to replicate any of his podium drives at last year, and in 2012, no I don't think he put a whole weekend together but I would have liked to see what he could have done in Spain. His Melbourne race was pretty good I thought.
Some more thoughts for the season
As Jens said, I had only considered the Lotus position for Maldonado. I had expressed faith in Grosjean being able to overcome wht now seems like inevitable disappointment as his hopes for a soon win may be put off for at least the time being. But this was when Eric Bouiller was still there. Now he's gone, that changes the situation, and now it's that much harder to see Grosjean being strong. But even so, he has still shown more evidence than Maldonado of coming through hard times. His start to last year wasn't easy at all.
With recent developments and now that two days of testing have gone, Lotus appear to be very much in an awkward place. As the form book of last year, and even the last 5 years, has been thrown out, I am wondering if the Enstone team could even suffer a season as bad as 2001 (as Benetton), due to their lack of preparation. I don't see that they've been getting ready for 2014 for 2-3 years like the top teams. They may actually be woefully underprepared. Throw in what's looking like a troublesome Renault engine, and the ingredients are there for a very difficult season indeed. Hopefully, there is still enough talent in the team despite the loss of staff, though in 2001 (another season with a bad engine) the staff seemed pretty good too.
I am thinking maybe it would be easier to summarise teams according to engines for now:
Renault
1.Red Bull - Well, I'm sure Renault will sort their issues, but it will take some doing to emerge as the best overall engine to have. Especially as they seem to struggle with energy recovery systems. There could be several failures on this side through the season, that even if not race-ending, will affect performance a lot. With the reporting that ERS will give a much bigger boost for 33sec per lap, the loss of this is estimated to now cost 1 whole second per lap! Whatever shape Renault are in though, we are sure that Red Bull will beat the the Renault teams hands down.
2.Lotus - Ok, I'm still going to put these guys ahead of Toro Rosso even though it could be a return to 2001, believing that over the season, the team can outdevelop Toro Rosso.
3.Toro Rosso - Jean-Eric Vergne has been saying the team has improved, but I don't know if this is just talk. I don't know how they will compare to Red Bull, but looking at the chassis shows there may be more independence from Red Bull than maybe expected. So being the Jr team is no guarantee of success.
4.Caterham - As much as the new rules give a chance to reset the field and give teams a chance to move up (or nearer), it can also go the wrong way, with Caterham maybe getting the concept wrong and being further than ever. It's a roll of the dice. Hopefully it will be the former, in which case it will be great to see Kobayashi being able to pluckily mix it with other teams at least some of the time - hopefully he's raring to go. Whatever happens, even if a point comes, or several points, I don't realistically see either Caterham or Marussia moving out of their 10th & 11th places this season.
Mercedes
1.Mercedes - Well I think the consensus is that the best Mercedes team will be Mercedes. With Seb and Red Bull starting to complain and be unhappy (now the shoe's on the other foot and they're the ones struggling), perhaps, just perhaps...
(ok,keysaren'teorkingagain,I'llcomebacklater)
1. Alonso
2. Who gives a sh!t
Mercedes (cont'd)
As I was saying, Perhaps, just perhaps this could be Mercedes' year. The natural inclination might be then to install Lewis as the title favourite. However, Nico surprised most of us last year. He seems the type of driver who can find more when a car is good - and the 2014 Mercedes might be very good. Though I see Hamilton as the more gifted, a studious and diligent, and consistent approach may win the day, and thus it could be Nico in no.1? Especially if Lewis messes up a few races as he is prone to do under pressure.
McLaren-Mercedes
The opinions after some testing seems to be that McLaren might actually have a very good car. This shouldn't be a huge surprise, as apart from 2013, all their recent cars have been right up there. Can they beat Mercedes, the works team? Well since Mercedes creation as BAR in 1999, the team have only beaten McLaren 3 times, in 2004, 2009 and 2013. What did those years have in common? That's right, McLaren messed up badly. It's still hard to know what a complete rookie like Magnussen without 10,000s miles of testing can do straight away against Button. Unlike last year, when McLaren set one quick time with a weird race-illegal setup, this time they have topped the times in both wet and dry, which although times are 'meaningless', does hold quite some promise.
Force-India
Hard to draw any conclusions from testing, but they seem in comparably strong and solid shape - the least reliable of the Mercedes cars perhaps.
Williams
Pat Symonds promised that the aero has taken a step up on the 2014 car. Early signs show that just possibly, Williams could be set for a good but not great season. They might actually be better than Force India, in which case 5th in the WCC may be very attainable indeed. What price a podium or two for Bottas somewhere?
Sauber-Ferrari
Hmmm, miles off the pace so far, but the Ferrari seems like a fairly reliable unit, though rumour is the ERS stuff isn't really cutting edge maybe. I get a (not very well founded) impression that Sauber are running a 'basic' team and car this year due to cost, so do expect early 2013 form at best really.
Lotus - Renault
Not looking in good shape, but hopefully for them they have enough depth for decent development to maybe become around 5th best team later in the season. As I said, with their terrible preparation they could start off like Benetton 2001 as even the last established team.
Toro Rosso
Oh dear, like someone said, by day 3 they have managed to get within 6sec off McLaren's pace. We don't know what kind of weight or anything they're carrying, but at least they're managing some running. One of the less reliable teams it seems.
Marussia
I was happy to see what I thought was a very attractive looking Marussia. I like the 2014 paint job using their familiar colours, but like the nose even more. This reminds me of 2012 when they had a nice nose when everyone went stepped. That year, they were very respectable. Also, they seem to have ok (comparing to others) reliability, hopefully meaning some well earned points at last.
Caterham - Renault
Not many laps at all eh? Hard to tell where they stand. Someone pointed out that it's interesting that the top teams are running vaguely similar noses. No idea if Caterham's will work...
Prediction
Red Bull will struggle. Horner, Newey and especially Marko will wail and cry - then the rules will be changed to suit them again like they were with the tyres in 2013, and we'll be back to 2013 in the second half of the season. YAY!
Doesn't seem far-fetched though I forgot to predict politics in my predictions. Maybe next time.:D So far I have been pondering about the option of RBR struggling to keep up with Mercedes/Ferrari for half or even 2/3rds of the season before coming on-song for Asian rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
The hardest part has been to guess the state of game between engines. I guess perhaps at worst RBR can have a Ferrari-2005 kind of season, where the championship-winning team is so far behind largely because one important component has failed them badly. As I mentioned earlier, 2005 season was hard to predict and especially the complete struggle of Ferrari.
It would be a surprise if Renault gets it so wrong, considering they have won many championships and should be competent enough to build at least a decent-enough engine, even if not quite on par with others. Then again, Bridgestone was also supposed to be very competent before 2005, having won lots of titles, yet they were ill-prepared for the single-tyre rule.
This shows, how fine the margins in F1 can be and you can't mess up badly even in one area, because you'll automatically have a significant handicap.
Based on testing so far it seems Williams is relatively well off and can compete for regular points. Right now they seem like fourth force behind Mercedes-McLaren-Ferrari group. However, obviously based on the moment as we do not know, how can the Renault-powered teams perform, and how well can, say, Force India develop over a season. But a stronger season for Williams seems on the cards.
What are the rules in regards to engine development now? Are the specs frozen immediately or can they actually develop them now?