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Very true.
Caution when using Switzerland in firearms statistics comparisons.
The statistics may be skewed by the fact that military service is compulsory in the country, with military-issued firearm possession a requirement for continued mandatory national guard service. Servicemen/women are required to keep their military equipment, including firearm, after completion of their mandatory service. This is why the private firearms ownership ratio is unusualy high for the country.
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Originally Posted by Malbec
Why is Switzerland not a valid comparison? The theme here seems to be that if you own a gun that you are either going to be killed by it, or kill someone using it. Therefore all guns must be outlawed. So I simply point to a country with about the same gun ownership percentage, but a much lower crime rate. Thus proving that it isn't the gun that is the problem, it's the people. What is invalid about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
Your own text that you cut and pasted from elsewhere refers not to guns owned in Switzerland but guns in circulation. This is because many Swiss men are issued submachine guns and assault rifles as part of their compulsory national military service which are stored at home until the men are in their 30s and 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
As such their mentality towards the weapons in their possession is likely to be different from Americans who make a clear choice as to whether they own a gun or not, and what type.
If you wish to skew stats to your advantage perhaps you should consider that the rate for gun usage in domestic violence incidents in Switzerland, and the number of domestic violence killings that result are the highest in Europe. This is most likely a result of the wide availability of high power firearms in homes around Switzerland.
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Originally Posted by schmenke
The hardest part is the shockingly high rate of "murder the whole family and then suicide cause i lost my job" in Schweiz...compared with they typical Euro nearly nothing rate.
I forget what the term is the Swiss have for it but it is a cliche now. (So it makes it hard to find more than just individual news stories--in German)
But the shocking frequency belies the standard "I's jest repeating crap I herard somebody else repeat" schmalz .
The do use their service weapons and wipe out everybody...
My sister lives in Switzerland, married a swiss man and has 2 swiss children. Her husband and both children had their mandatory military service that went on for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Their military gear was at home in those days (this was many years ago) and I remember being told that Switzerland, a neutral peaceful country, had an army that would be ready for action faster than any other country precisely because they knew where to go in when called upon, uniform, weapons et all.
I even imagined a tank parked in someones garage - him being the guy that drives the tank to battle, :p
Apples and oranges here -no comparison what so ever. And i'm not saying that deaths cannot happen in Switzerland because of gun use, there probably has, and again, no comparison what so ever.
I’m merely pointing out that private firearms ownership is a requirement for many Swiss, whereas, as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, in the U.S. it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
A meaningful comparison between the two countries would need to exclude the statistics for the Swiss military-issued firearms as these are not, in my opinion, “privately” owned guns in the same sense as the U.S., in the context of this thread.
Tidy, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
For the reasons posted by others, it is evident that there is a difference in attitude to gun ownership between the two Countries. Perhaps Americas gun obsession and paranoia are evidence of a national mentality that still partly wants to be John Wayne or Rambo. This is evidence when the subject of criminalising gun ownership crops up and the mass hysteria that ensues by Americans that see this as a threat to their liberty.
America has a lot of social problems and this is part of the cause of the frightening gun crime statistics. However, it would be naive to blame the gun problem on just the criminals without looking a little deeper.
America isn't at a point where Britain might invade and set King George back in parliment. Your constitution needs to reflect the maturing of your Country and the population need to begin changing with it.
So then let's force everyone to own a gun then???? That'll make it all better. I am really struggling to follow your logic. On the one hand you say that the gun is the problem, so let's outlaw them. Then when faced with the fact that other countries have just as many gun, you say the problem is with "private" ownership, or that it's the attitude of the owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
And again you are going to claim that the government coming in and making illegal something that was legal 10seconds ago, is somehow NOT a threat to liberty?
That's precisely what I'm saying. The problem is not owning a gun at all, the problems are many and diverse and mostly socio-economic. Owning a gun legally is NOT a problem, so what is the rational behind outlawing them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Why? The VAST majority of people that own guns are responsible and will never use them to commit a crime? So what reason do you have for making them all criminals tomorrow by outlawing gun ownership?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
How can you possibly say there is no comparison? People prattle on about how having a gun at home is so dangerous, that somehow everyone who has a gun at home is going to kill themselves and others. But a large portion of the Swiss population has guns at home, with MUCH lower crime rates. So where is the link saying that if you have a gun at home it will necessarily be dangerous?Quote:
Originally Posted by race aficionado