Do You Know the Real Islam?

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Originally Posted by Captain VXR

There's plenty of Christians burning 'witches' in places like Nigeria and Uganda

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Your proof, and as you said plenty it had better be numerous and gov. executions, elsewise you are just blowing smoke.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

The fact remains that the Pope didn't just say that abstinence and loyalty prevent sexually transmitted disease, he said that condoms don't and that condoms make the problems worse. His attitude seems to be 'AIDS is bad, but condoms are worse'.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but the Pope is a Catholic preaching to Catholics.

He is right to assume that practicing Catholics adhere to Catholic principles including abstaining from pre-marital sex etc. In that context can you please tell me what relevance condom use has for a couple who are faithful to each other for life as Catholic teachings prescribe in preventing HIV spread?

You're approaching his attitude towards condoms from a non-Catholic standpoint trying to apply it to lifestyles that are completely at odds with what the Pope preaches. You're right that condoms are essential for preventing all sorts of conditions in people who do sleep around, but then again they won't be Catholics by definition would they.

This whole thing about HIV, condoms and the Pope is incredibly poorly thought through. There are plenty of other awful issues over which to criticise the Catholic Church over but HIV is one subject where the arguments used to damn the Pope reflect poorly on those who criticise him.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I haven't seen Malbecs statistics. And even so, the data wouldn't prove anything. Data would show an increase of HIV diagnosis in the UK, but a majority of the new cases would be from people who have come to the UK already with HIV.

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And those migrants are from sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian sub-continent.

HIV is rampant in parts of the world where macho cultures persist in which men believe they can have as many partners as they want when they want, and where using protection is an affront to masculinity. That is why prostitution and rape are rife in sub-Saharan Africa and that is why HIV is so common there.

Blaming the Pope in this is largely an irrelevance. There has to be a fundamental culture shift in Africa and South Asia.

But going back to the UK, the HIV rate among the native British population has historically been and continues to be higher than in more conservative parts of the world. That is not something you can deny.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I really don't think that religious groups are the right ones to teach us about sex. Take the Catholic church; celibacy of nuns, priests, monks. Is this a natural and healthy attitude towards sex? The Catholic Church is obsessed with sex in the same way that anorexics are obsessed with food.

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Completely with you on that one.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Pope is a Catholic preaching to Catholics.

He is right to assume that practicing Catholics adhere to Catholic principles including abstaining from pre-marital sex etc. In that context can you please tell me what relevance condom use has for a couple who are faithful to each other for life as Catholic teachings prescribe in preventing HIV spread?

You're approaching his attitude towards condoms from a non-Catholic standpoint trying to apply it to lifestyles that are completely at odds with what the Pope preaches. You're right that condoms are essential for preventing all sorts of conditions in people who do sleep around, but then again they won't be Catholics by definition would they.

This whole thing about HIV, condoms and the Pope is incredibly poorly thought through. There are plenty of other awful issues over which to criticise the Catholic Church over but HIV is one subject where the arguments used to damn the Pope reflect poorly on those who criticise him.

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And what about his wicked lie that condoms increase the risk of catching HIV?

If the Catholic Church is right about the issue then why did the Pope change his mind last year?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

And those migrants are from sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian sub-continent.

HIV is rampant in parts of the world where macho cultures persist in which men believe they can have as many partners as they want when they want, and where using protection is an affront to masculinity. That is why prostitution and rape are rife in sub-Saharan Africa and that is why HIV is so common there.

Blaming the Pope in this is largely an irrelevance. There has to be a fundamental culture shift in Africa and South Asia.

But going back to the UK, the HIV rate among the native British population has historically been and continues to be higher than in more conservative parts of the world. That is not something you can deny.

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But is the reason peoples liberal attitude to sex? Or is it just a statistic that has come about because areas of Western Europe and the US coasts have societies that include more immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa?
Statistics are one-dimensional.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

And what about his wicked lie that condoms increase the risk of catching HIV?

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Except he didn't say that. He said that the use of condoms to combat HIV can backfire. I personally disagree with that but there have been medical studies showing that indeed some people receive free condoms but decline to use them, yet participate in more unprotected sex than they did before.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

But is the reason peoples liberal attitude to sex? Or is it just a statistic that has come about because areas of Western Europe and the US coasts have societies that include more immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa?
Statistics are one-dimensional.

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There are three ways HIV can spread.

Unprotected sex.
IV drug use.
Medical bodily fluid exchange.

Outside India the last of those three is pretty much non-existent. In most Western countries with aggressive needle exchange programmes the second is also much reduced.

In the UK and US you've chosen the biggest cause for HIV spread is indeed unprotected sex. You've talked about immigration from Sub-Saharan Africa where the spread of HIV is almost entirely due to 'liberal' attitudes to sex (I'd call it a misguided misogynistic attitude to sex personally). As for the native British population the greatest rise in HIV is also amongst heterosexuals who practice unprotected sex.

You say statistics are one-dimensional. What do you think then is the main route of HIV transmission in the UK and amongst the Sub-Saharan African population?

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Originally Posted by salarcon

It's incredibly sad how few people really know the true Islam today.

Islam teaches many things and that includes justice, love, preserving family blood ties, brotherhood, kindness to one's parents, and the list goes on.

Many people in the West confuse the real teachings of Islam with the stupid behavior of extremists who have the audacity to call themselves muslims. Real muslims do not kill innocent people.

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Really?

Then explain this headline.

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Saudi Arabia executes woman convicted of 'sorcery'
Saudi authorities have executed a woman convicted of practicing magic and sorcery.

Rape, murder, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking are all punishable by death under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic sharia law.

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Saudi Arabia executes woman convicted of 'sorcery' - Telegraph

Religion is the scourge of the earth. Why do people of all religions listen to what is in a book written 5 million billion trillion years ago by some guy who lived in a cave and probably wiped his arse with his eating hand?

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Religion is the scourge of the earth. Why do people of all religions listen to what is in a book written 5 million billion trillion years ago by some guy who lived in a cave and probably wiped his arse with his eating hand?

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I may disagree with a lot of what you have to say, but I can't argue with this. We now live in an age of science and reason, which makes continued adherence to such texts all the more incomprehensible. Still, each to their own. And religion has produced many fascinating relics and buildings.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I may disagree with a lot of what you have to say, but I can't argue with this. We now live in an age of science and reason, which makes continued adherence to such texts all the more incomprehensible. Still, each to their own. And religion has produced many fascinating relics and buildings.

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Wow! Are you a reincarnation of Voltaire? I just recall that the establishment of the Cult of Reason in the revolutionary France as the final step of radical de-Christianization was followed by the Reign of Terror.

Some personifications of Marianne are really beautiful, though.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I may disagree with a lot of what you have to say, but I can't argue with this. We now live in an age of science and reason, which makes continued adherence to such texts all the more incomprehensible. Still, each to their own. And religion has produced many fascinating relics and buildings.

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You're not so bad after all ;) :p :

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Religion is the scourge of the earth. Why do people of all religions listen to what is in a book written 5 million billion trillion years ago by some guy who lived in a cave and probably wiped his arse with his eating hand?

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Hmm, if religious faith (I am not going to debate here which one is correct. ) is fairy tale, why would man have to created it?
If there is no higher power, why would man create somthing for which he had no base (no knolwedge period of any such idea) or reason to create?