Sir Stirling Moss retires at last

FGS he didn't say he was lucky to win his Titles, he said he was lucky to win ALL of his titles, and qualified the luck as being lucky to have been in a race winning car for so long.

You pointed out 2 things, that Schumacher brough the team together at Ferrari and worked very hard to make it a winner, but he was only one cog, and it was the management that brought the team together and it did all gel and excel for a long period. You also point to the drivers he beat (and occasionally lost to) like Raikkonen, Hakkinen, Alonso, when these guys had race winning cars they won races, but none of them were able to call upon a race winning car for the same length of time in their career as Scumacher did. I would say that was pretty lucky, and regardless of whether "you make your own luck", its still a prrivelgied and fortunate situation to find himself in. He made the best of it, but it could have happened to another driver and they may well have won 4 or 5 titles whilst MS struggled in an uncompetitive Williams or Mclaren.

Moss never stated that MS lucky to win anything, only that 7 titles could be seen as partly lucky

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Oh I don't believe I know better. I know I do. I've met plenty of people from the paddock and I attend quite a lot of F1 races myself. I'm lucky that way that through my karting career I made a lot of friends that are now in F1 circles, all before an accident forced me to end my racing.

Stirling Moss, as someone said above, has a big ego on him. I would love to see a driver of this generation tear into him and take him down a peg or two. Unfortunately, too many people believe he is a legend despite never even winning a title and losing to a man 18 years his senior and I doubt any driver would take that "legend" on. This infatuation that people have with him has always baffled me, honestly.

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As I said, you lack any historical perspective whatsoever. What are your views on, for example, the likes of Chris Amon who failed ever to win an F1 race, or Dan Gurney who never became World Champion? Abject failures?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

As I said, you lack any historical perspective whatsoever. What are your views on, for example, the likes of Chris Amon who failed ever to win an F1 race, or Dan Gurney who never became World Champion? Abject failures?

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Nope you do. I made my own mind up about Moss based on his results. You simply went with whatever you were told or the norm should I say :D

I don't see what Dan Gurney or Chris Amon really have to do with this except that, like Moss, they both failed to win a championship but were also fantastic drivers.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Nope you do. I made my own mind up about Moss based on his results. You simply went with whatever you were told or the norm should I say :D

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Er... no.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I don't see what Dan Gurney or Chris Amon really have to do with this except that, like Moss, they both failed to win a championship but were also fantastic drivers.

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I am glad you concede that, at least, although I am sure that were one to make the slightest criticism of Schumacher you would brand them as senile.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Er... no.



I am glad you concede that, at least, although I am sure that were one to make the slightest criticism of Schumacher you would brand them as senile.

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Never said Moss wasn't a brilliant driver. He was a great driver, but not one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Never said Moss wasn't a brilliant driver. He was a great driver, but not one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned.

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On that, we — and I'm hardly the only one — must agree to disagree, just as I hope you will take back the view that the rest of us have just bought in to some standard viewpoint.

Folks,

ENOUGH!

Please can we have no more personal insults, criticisms, aspersion, etc
If you put forward a controversial view, this is your prerogative. But, you must be prepared to substantiate it and should do so when asked.

I hope you get the picture.

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Originally Posted by D-Type

I hope you get the picture.

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I can't see the picture. Can you post it again.....

saw a programme on BBC4 where Richard Hammond spoke to StirlingMoss about, amongst other things, recovering from a huge accident that nearly killed him, relating also to Haamonds dragster crash and brain injury. The man is definately not in the slightest bit senile, he might be outspoken, but his thoughts were conveyed incredibly clearly

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Stirling Moss is an idiot.

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He probably thinks the same about you.

We are all entitled to our opinions and many in the past have disagreed with minority or contraversial ones. That is what life is all about. However may I suggest you pop down to your local library or even use t'internet to find out a little about the man and just some of his accomplishments?

From what I've read of your posts, which is not much I admit, you seem to be a bit of a Ferrari/Schumi fan like myself? Go grab yourself any book on Ferrari history and you will find plenty in there that would tell you what Ferrari thought of him. Read any book on Schumi (that's worth reading) and you will find that HE sees Moss as one of the all time greatest drivers, a person whom HE has a deep respect for.

As someone else said, I hope I can still breathe, chew my own food and fart without needing to change my pants every time I do. Let alone still be highly competitive and winning races against much younger competitors at his age.