The purpose of government

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

So in your book, a pedophile is entitled to accesses child porn online from another country because it's nothing to do with your government because it's not your peoples property being violated. Then we have the fact that the pedo owns the computer and is on his property so can do whatever he wants and the government must protect him.

Or we have that recent murder where a jogger murdered those 2 lads because he thought he was about to be mugged. In your world, those lads could have bought the street and shot the jogger for trespass and the state would support them.

Do you mind if I don't visit your planet.

---

On what planet have I said anything like that? Perhaps you would like to visit Earth, the planet upon which we are having this discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Chuck the point of your thread was this:
What is the core, foundation, bed-rock, guiding purpose of government?

---

Bob, perhaps I could have worded the original question a bit differently. How about "What should be the core, foundation, bed-rock, guiding purpose of good government"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Nothing you have said defends your opinion.
Others have made their points far better, with far more logic.

---

I don't see how others have made points any better than I have. Others have made points, valid points. But if you deconstruct them to the core it all comes down to property rights. And specifically how governments choose to define those rights and how it chooses to control them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

I don't see how others have made points any better than I have. Others have made points, valid points. But if you deconstruct them to the core it all comes down to property rights. And specifically how governments choose to define those rights and how it chooses to control them.

---

I don't think you need to justify yourself any further than that, really. We may disagree, but such is inevitable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

I don't see how others have made points any better than I have. Others have made points, valid points. But if you deconstruct them to the core it all comes down to property rights. And specifically how governments choose to define those rights and how it chooses to control them.

---

No it does not as governments have and can take property so property rights have nothing to do with why government/s exist, especially as more than a few people over the years have no property.
Are saying they have no rights or right to protest?

If I do not pay property taxes, I will have no property; therefore your point is void, unless you say governments reason for existence is to take from others in which case their is no reason for it to exist.

I agree if you are trying to say what you said, you should change the question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

No it does not as governments have and can take property so property rights have nothing to do with why government/s exist, especially as more than a few people over the years have no property.
Are saying they have no rights or right to protest?

If I do not pay property taxes, I will have no property; therefore your point is void, unless you say governments reason for existence is to take from others in which case their is no reason for it to exist.

I agree if you are trying to say what you said, you should change the question.

---

In this instance, I take what chuck34 is referring to as meaning property in the widest sense, to include territory, which in itself takes in a whole manner of other functions of government relating to security and the like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

I don't see how others have made points any better than I have. Others have made points, valid points. But if you deconstruct them to the core it all comes down to property rights. And specifically how governments choose to define those rights and how it chooses to control them.

---

Property almost always implies things (either tangible or intangible) which can be bought or sold. People themselves have more than things which can be bought and sold. The right to vote, citizenship, who can run for office etc. are all things which don't fall under the realms of mere "property".

Besides which, aren't property rights just a subset of the total rights of an individual?

A right itself is the sovereignty to act without the permission of others. That implies authority either conferred by nature, god(s) (incl. all religious positions here - this is a far bigger argument and beyond the scope of this thread), or by an entity which has been legally empowered with authority to act.
Governments definitely are empowered to have a say in who has a right to vote, who is eligible citizenship, and who can run for office etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rollo

Property almost always implies things (either tangible or intangible) which can be bought or sold. People themselves have more than things which can be bought and sold. The right to vote, citizenship, who can run for office etc. are all things which don't fall under the realms of mere "property".

---

Which is exactly why I took the view that the reference to 'property' was wider-ranging than items that can be bought and sold (indeed, even citizenship — while a very nebulous concept indeed — is connected with the ownership of land), though I agree that there are other factors at play.

Citizenship isn't connected with the ownership of land though. You don't need to own anything to have the citizenship of a nation conferred on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rollo

Citizenship isn't connected with the ownership of land though. You don't need to own anything to have the citizenship of a nation conferred on you.

---

But the nation does.

The powers conferred to a national government are not because it owns land. They are given to the nation of virtue of legal operation.

The will of the people is nominally the basis of the authority of government.* In real terms we are seeing that played out on the streets of Cairo.

*Also Article 21 of the UDHR.