Over Population

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Originally Posted by ioan

There are already too many people.
Luckily for us in developed countries the people living in 3rd world countries are not using the same amount of resources as we do, otherwise we would have huge problems, and this also explains why developed countries have no real interest in improving those 3rd world countries' situation.

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See? It's not a problem of population but of using resources. To my knowledge exactly in the developed countries we notice a decrease of the rate of natality. At the same time I think that in the 3rd world countries we should take into account the rate of infantile mortality which is probably high.
Then it's the index of " hope of life " which is different in developed/3rd world countries.
I think that it would be interesting to see the evolution in the last 100 years of such indexes in different part of the world.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

Survival is quite barbaric now in many areas of the world. Human life needs more respect than this. The point of the thread is to discuss overpopulation. Not really to determine 1 or 2 children or implementation of rules due to death of your child. Bring us the solution for some of the African countries to assure a decent life and not to lay there starving covered with flies. You are quick to attack for your personal benefit but fail to have any compassion for fellow humans.

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Well, I'm afraid that if it's not about a genocide no other solution is good for you.
But as latin say :"De gustibus non disputandum est ". :laugh:

If sterilization of poor nations is the right solution for you then all I can say is I'm happy in real life I don't have to deal with people like you.

The difference between us is that your reasoning comes from a fact ( Survival is quite barbaric now in many areas of the world ) and mine from an ideal: Survival shouldn't be barbaric now in many areas of the world .
And I suspect that we have different opinions on the " many areas of the world " part. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Y
I have to disagree about the fresh water though. Yes, there is a limited supply of fresh water in some countries/areas, but on a whole most countries are fine water wise if their resources are maintained adequately.

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It varies inside countries too. e.g. North of England is very well provisioned for water supplies, the south is not!

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Many countries border the ocean, where dessalination plants can produce fresh water from the vastness that is our oceans. I mean, Dubai for example relies solely on this type of water supply and they have grown at a rediculous rate over the last 20 years. The reason many countries don't go this route? "It's too expensive". That is another prime example of man making problems worse for himself when it could be made better with a bit more willpower and forgetting about money for once. Governments can buy fancy cars, but they can't build dessalination plants? The world is screwed up man!

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The resources have to come from somewhere! And desalinisation is very expensive, it also takes a large amount of energy to run. Dubai can do that because they have vast oil reserves, other countries aren't so lucky.

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There are plenty of resources on this planet for our current population, they are just not managed properly and sadly never will be.

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True, you just have to be sensible about things. e.g. Don't have 10 kids if you live in a desert and can't feed yourself in the first place..

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Originally Posted by Mark

It varies inside countries too. e.g. North of England is very well provisioned for water supplies, the south is not!

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Serves them right for living in the south I say :p :

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

You sound like my wife schmenke :p :

I have to disagree about the fresh water though. Yes, there is a limited supply of fresh water in some countries/areas, but on a whole most countries are fine water wise if their resources are maintained adequately. Many countries border the ocean, where dessalination plants can produce fresh water from the vastness that is our oceans. I mean, Dubai for example relies solely on this type of water supply and they have grown at a rediculous rate over the last 20 years. The reason many countries don't go this route? "It's too expensive". That is another prime example of man making problems worse for himself when it could be made better with a bit more willpower and forgetting about money for once. Governments can buy fancy cars, but they can't build dessalination plants? The world is screwed up man!

There are plenty of resources on this planet for our current population, they are just not managed properly and sadly never will be.

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Sorry 555, but I'd suggest a bit of research.
The facts are that the reliable sources of fresh water worldwide are diminishing rapidly. Examples:
Underground aquifiers are depleting. Both in the arid American west and Africa, wells are having to be drilled increasingly deeper to reach water.
Much of central Asia's water supply relies on snow melt from the Himilayan glaciers which are evaporating an alarming rate (the Ganges and Yangtze rivers are examples). Similarily, much of the American Northwest relies on glacial melt water from the Rocky mountains which have all but vanished. The schmenke family visited "Glacier National Park" in Montana this past summer, and guess what... The glaciers had vanished long ago :s . Similarly, if anyone wants to set foot on the famous glaciers near Jasper, Canada, I'd suggest you do it soon, because they will be gone in our lifetimes.
The Colorado River is so dry that its waters no longer reach the ocean.
Google mt. Kilimanjaro in Africa and you'll see that Africa's only glacier, supply for much of that region's fresh water, has all but disappeared.
I could go on...

Desalination plants are expensive construct, but are even more expensive to operate. They require an enormous amount of energy which many countries simply can't afford, not to mention the obvious environmental impacts.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Well, I'm afraid that if it's not about a genocide no other solution is good for you.
But as latin say :"De gustibus non disputandum est ". :laugh:

If sterilization of poor nations is the right solution for you then all I can say is I'm happy in real life I don't have to deal with people like you.

The difference between us is that your reasoning comes from a fact ( Survival is quite barbaric now in many areas of the world ) and mine from an ideal: Survival shouldn't be barbaric now in many areas of the world .
And I suspect that we have different opinions on the " many areas of the world " part. :laugh:

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We also are sad we have to deal with people like you - unknowing - uncaring

One billion people live on less than $1 a day, the threshold defined by the international community as constituting extreme poverty, below which survival is questionable. That number encompasses a multitude of people living in varying degrees of poverty—all of them poor, but some even more desperately poor than others

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Sorry 555, but I'd suggest a bit of research.
The facts are that the reliable sources of fresh water worldwide are diminishing rapidly. Examples:
Underground aquifiers are depleting. Both in the arid American west and Africa, wells are having to be drilled increasingly deeper to reach water.
Much of central Asia's water supply relies on snow melt from the Himilayan glaciers which are evaporating an alarming rate (the Ganges and Yangtze rivers are examples). Similarily, much of the American Northwest relies on glacial melt water from the Rocky mountains which have all but vanished. The schmenke family visited "Glacier National Park" in Montana this past summer, and guess what... The glaciers had vanished long ago :s . Similarly, if anyone wants to set foot on the famous glaciers near Jasper, Canada, I'd suggest you do it soon, because they will be gone in our lifetimes.
The Colorado River is so dry that its waters no longer reach the ocean.
Google mt. Kilimanjaro in Africa and you'll see that Africa's only glacier, supply for much of that region's fresh water, has all but disappeared.
I could go on...

Desalination plants are expensive construct, but are even more expensive to operate. They require an enormous amount of energy which many countries simply can't afford, not to mention the obvious environmental impacts.

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schmenke, I can't argue the facts about glaciers melting etc as we all know that is happening. Your last paragraph though clears up exactly what I have been saying. There are plenty of resources available for our current 6 billion+ population. Just because there is a lack of funds to build something that can sustain us does not mean resources are scarce or are not there.

We have more than enough vital resources to sustain our current population, we just need to manage them, manage our future population growth rate and decide, "Is it too expensive to save mankind? Is a dollar worth more than our races future?"

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Originally Posted by Roamy

We also are sad we have to deal with people like you - unknowing - uncaring

One billion people live on less than $1 a day, the threshold defined by the international community as constituting extreme poverty, below which survival is questionable. That number encompasses a multitude of people living in varying degrees of poverty—all of them poor, but some even more desperately poor than others

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Instead of eating three Big Mac burgers at lunchtime then, why don't you donate two of them to these poverty stricken people? You will hopefully wipeout obesity in the land of stars and stripes and help feed two starving children, even if its not the best meal they could have.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Instead of eating three Big Mac burgers at lunchtime then, why don't you donate two of them to these poverty stricken people? You will hopefully wipeout obesity in the land of stars and stripes and help feed two starving children, even if its not the best meal they could have.

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And just what makes you think I eat big mac burgers?

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Originally Posted by Roamy

And just what makes you think I eat big mac burgers?

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Its just an example of our lifestyle of excess. We consume more than we need to, for no reason other than just because we can. I am also guilty of this, as most people are.