Who will be Champion ?

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

Yes, Alonso is very much in the WDC hunt, that is if he has enough engines for the remaining races this year. How many has he left, two? he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza? A penalty for changing engines and missed points if a DFN. It could be tough for dear Aloso. :(

As for Hamilton. MacLaren are out developed by Ferrari and Red Bull are out of reach. Up until now he had a lot of luck but I´m afraid that he has used all of it.

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will Alonso (Cheat) get to keep the points from Germany or will they be striped by the FIA

i see this the same as lewis and liegate

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

Yes, Alonso is very much in the WDC hunt, that is if he has enough engines for the remaining races this year. How many has he left, two? he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza? A penalty for changing engines and missed points if a DFN. It could be tough for dear Aloso. :(

As for Hamilton. MacLaren are out developed by Ferrari and Red Bull are out of reach. Up until now he had a lot of luck but I´m afraid that he has used all of it.

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Check it out Einstein!
If what you say is correct, (Fred has two new lumps left for the season). Since Ferrari haven’t had a detonation since they fixed their valve seats.
As I say if you are correct, and if this trend continues (getting the three races off remaining lumps),
that leaves him with one race to use any of the others that have been used, which is not ideal but quite manageable. IMO
I thought his engine situation was much worse than that.

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he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza?

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No!!!

Do you mean he only has two lumps left that don’t have at least two races on them?

Perhaps someone could provide a link. :confused:

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

will Alonso (Cheat) get to keep the points from Germany or will they be striped by the FIA

i see this the same as lewis and liegate

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Without wanting to dredge up old controversy, I cannot let this pass. Liegate and what occurred at Hockenheim has absolutely no resemblance to what Lewis was involved in that caused the scapegoating and eventual sacrifical lambing of Davey Ryan.

Alonso and Ferrari did not cheat and Ferrari did not exactly try too hard to deny team orders. Nobody was hung out to dry.

Hamilton if you recall LIED not once but TWICE to officials and then suffered NONE of the consequences because Ryan was made the fall guy.

A disgrace that almost caused Lewis to retire from racing and I am sure that there are times when his mind drifts that it is an episode he will never forget what he was part of.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I dislike him and could NEVER support such a person. A moral coward.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Without wanting to dredge up old controversy, I cannot let this pass. Liegate and what occurred at Hockenheim has absolutely no resemblance to what Lewis was involved in that caused the scapegoating and eventual sacrifical lambing of Davey Ryan.

Alonso and Ferrari did not cheat and Ferrari did not exactly try too hard to deny team orders. Nobody was hung out to dry.

Hamilton if you recall LIED not once but TWICE to officials and then suffered NONE of the consequences because Ryan was made the fall guy.

A disgrace that almost caused Lewis to retire from racing and I am sure that there are times when his mind drifts that it is an episode he will never forget what he was part of.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I dislike him and could NEVER support such a person. A moral coward.

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:down:

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Without wanting to dredge up old controversy, I cannot let this pass. Liegate and what occurred at Hockenheim has absolutely no resemblance to what Lewis was involved in that caused the scapegoating and eventual sacrifical lambing of Davey Ryan.

Alonso and Ferrari did not cheat and Ferrari did not exactly try too hard to deny team orders. Nobody was hung out to dry.

Hamilton if you recall LIED not once but TWICE to officials and then suffered NONE of the consequences because Ryan was made the fall guy.

A disgrace that almost caused Lewis to retire from racing and I am sure that there are times when his mind drifts that it is an episode he will never forget what he was part of.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I dislike him and could NEVER support such a person. A moral coward.

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i meant that the driver was involved so the punishment should be the same

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Originally Posted by henners88

We won't talk about the fact Stefano Domenicali, Luca Colajanni, and several other members of the team lied to the stewards in Germany in that case. :eek:

The difference in Lewis's case was the fact it was sensationalised by the media and used to publicise F1 in its opening race. It topped the headlines and gave valuable exposure to the sport at the expense of Lewis and his superiors. The similarity between the two cases is the fact both incidents involved team members lying to the stewards and one committed the crime in an obvious manner whilst the others did it through code. Both incidents carry shame but neither is more serious than the other if we are discussing the 'lie factor' IMO.

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The Ferrari team at no time were accused of lying - Alonso WAS quicker and earlier in therace Massa refused to allow him by - leading to the "ridiculous" comment by Alonso. Vettel was catching up and Ferrari were concerned.

They did not want a RBR Turkey situation and validly so.

That is what they told the stewards - in their view it was not team orders and when sked they said no. But after being accused of this Ferrari quickly realized the possible Catch 22 trap and Luca came oot in the open and disussed the matter.

It is an uncertain rule and this is why there will be a hearing.

And teams such as Renault said that it is not so much what was done but that because of the rule it ought to have been done in a subtle way.

Not to mention that team orders is the right of a team and ALL the teams support that.

Nothing at like the straight forward lying over an incident that was subsequently proven by evidence. Both Hamilton and Ryan lied and did so TWICE until confronted with the evidence.

Then, Hamilton in the most cowardly way, joined in making Dave Ryan the scapegoat.

Hamilton is a moral coward. He acted this way in first challenging Jenson in the London Triathlon and then getting "daddy" to make up a bs excuse when he got cold feet. Then lie-gate.

I do not like weak, mawkish people. Hamilton may be an excellent racing driver, but he is certainly very weak of character.

Thats what happens to spoilt brats.

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Originally Posted by henners88

It was a team order, Ferrari denied it was a team order post race, LdM admitted it was a team order through the teams website, and even the doltish of mathematicians amongst us had a conclusion. The rest is history and has been done to death.

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Thats what I said above - Ferrari first tried to answer by explaining why and then they saw the trap so Luca confirmed that as it was Ferrari's right ......

In the upcoming meeting of the Council nothing will happen to the team because all the teams want the stupid rule, that contravene's the right, to be abandoned.

Ferrari showed great courage and through their action in Germany things will improve.

And importantly Bernie supports them on this as well.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Or stupidity which ever way you look at it. They were fined and may face further punishment so its abit early to claim a revolution IMO. At the end of the day they broke a rule which carries a punishment, and if the FIA give way to them on this, then it opens every rule up for debate.

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I thought every rule in F1 was subject to debate, and upon Bernie's whim. :confused:

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Originally Posted by henners88

Or stupidity which ever way you look at it. They were fined and may face further punishment so its abit early to claim a revolution IMO. At the end of the day they broke a rule which carries a punishment, and if the FIA give way to them on this, then it opens every rule up for debate.

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Not all rules pertain to a teams right.

I dont think Ferrari wanted to cover it up. Motezemolo has gained tremendous stature within FOTA and his power has risen following the "war".

The SF look at team orders as their right - which is correct - and this is why it unfolded the way it did.

With Mosely gone the WSC is open to the influence of Bernie and Todt - both of whom agree with team orders.

I think we could see the rule significantly modified which considers the circumstances such as we saw in Germany.

If there's a lesson all the teams should learn from Ferrari and McLaren debacles it's that they should remember what they said on the radio during the race and get their stories straight before talking to the stewards! I've seen better criminal masterminds at work :s mokin: