new engine rules

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

You had best do some in depth reading into the history of Indianapolis and the sanctions that ran there, Especially the rules.

CART died by destroying what inherited from the USAC. They chopped, sliced and eliminated till blownd Ford were all that was left.

I.E. CART took rules that had basic boundaries and guidelines, and turned it into a spec. formula by elimination, till they eliminated Automotive builders interest.
George did the same thing only on a quicker scale and by killing the rules he created.

---

Well Bob, in that case I agree that George was more successful than CART in killing a series. Much more efficient...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by naracingfan

I've been told that 4 cylinders have more reciprocating mass compared to V6s, hence less power for a given displacement.

---

Well BMW built a 1500 cc turbo inline 4 that was putting 1100 hp out for qualfying in the f1 Turbo era . So again, tell me how bad a 4 is? IN this same Era, Renault have their v6 Turbo, and they didn't see 1100 hp but they were up there....

the configuration comes back to packaging, and marketing. If the car is big enough and open enough to either engine, and aero between the wheels is restricted, there is ample room for a manufacturer to try to make either config work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

So Bob, when Mercedes, Honda and Cosworth were going at it with Ilmor in CART in the early 90's, the mismanagement of the series had NOTHING to do with those automakers leaving? It had little do with engine rules.....it had everything to do with the mess the whole OW world was going through in terms of two series fighting over a smaller and smaller group of race fans and destorying their TV product. I am sure THAT had a hell of a lot more to do with the loss of manufacturer interest than whether you could run 40 inches of boost or 43....

---

Umm, engine, chassis, tire rules are made by sanctions management last time I checked.

If you remember correctly, there were often reports over the years of "possible" or actual meetings to discuss a formula rules.

Neither side ever was serious so Detroit said bye-bye.

Engines are Detroit's involvement in Indy car racing, they will not jump through hoops because sanctions think they should.
CART and the IRL found that out the hard way. (The IMSA should have paid attention, they have found out now also.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by px400r

Well Bob, in that case I agree that George was more successful than CART in killing a series. Much more efficient...

---

To the point he crapped on his own dream, yes.

Non-CART II IRL last less than ten years, so You are pretty much correct.

soLuTIOn:
Unlimited displacement; F-heads only; using isopropyl alcohol with Stromberg carbs.
It will take at least five years before they get too fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

So Bob, when Mercedes, Honda and Cosworth were going at it with Ilmor in CART in the early 90's, the mismanagement of the series had NOTHING to do with those automakers leaving? It had little do with engine rules.....it had everything to do with the mess the whole OW world was going through in terms of two series fighting over a smaller and smaller group of race fans and destorying their TV product. I am sure THAT had a hell of a lot more to do with the loss of manufacturer interest than whether you could run 40 inches of boost or 43....

---

Underscored for emphasis! :up:

When one notices that the same manufacturers that have left AOWR (throw in Dodge as Daimler Benz) are now racing in NASCAR, with carbureted pushrod V8's (that have not a damn thing to do with the current OEM market), it's pretty clear that the management and marketing failures in AOWR had more to do with them leaving than whether or not the cars ran turbos vs. N.A., V8's vs. V6's vs I-4's.

Re: Mark's comment on BMW's monstrous horsepower.

There's a reason why F1 dropped the mixed formula. I'll never forget Canadian driver Allen Berg commenting on his drive in F1 with back-marker Osella: "We were down 400 horse power to the BMW!" That's 400, not 40!

Would this happen in the new IRL set-up. I'm afraid not not. The new "come one, come all" formula will certainly be accompanied by a wink and a nod that will ensure nobody gets embarrassed.

That's my issue this formula.

I just saw the details (or lack thereof) of the new engine formula on Versus. Other than Honda, who is still at the table? Unless one of those that crossed it off the list last year comes back (or someone new shows up), aren't we still just looking at Honda?

VW seemed the best bet, but they didn't seem to leave any doubt about where they stood once they left the table. So Honda and...??? Any ideas or rumors?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Underscored for emphasis! :up:

When one notices that the same manufacturers that have left AOWR (throw in Dodge as Daimler Benz) are now racing in NASCAR, with carbureted pushrod V8's (that have not a damn thing to do with the current OEM market), it's pretty clear that the management and marketing failures in AOWR had more to do with them leaving than whether or not the cars ran turbos vs. N.A., V8's vs. V6's vs I-4's.

---

No it does not, by your analogy why did Dodge, Ford (Saleen) and Ferrari walf away from the IMSA GT1 ?

Many, many, especially gear-head fans, find the engines under a NASCAR stocker closely related to how good the company making street cars is.
Ford did not abandone it genuine production based V-8 till this year.
If it did not sell cars why did Toyota, have its U.S. racing branch, build a new engine.
The France boy told Detroit it was going to go to a generic engine, along with its generic car; Detroit, told France-- fine, you will do it without us.

France blinked.
If organization cluster f---s cause such a failure, CART would have died the day it had to take USAC to court to get into Indy.
If they found Indy so unimportant, why did they bother?

George has poorly managed his IRL since day one, yet it still exists.
OH by the way, engine and chassis rules are priority one, for a racing sanction. No cars, no races, so yes in that manner management and marketing failure with the basic rules was/is the major failure.

Track owner do not give a sh-- about TV rating, unless they get fans in the stands, they will not bother with any sanction. CCW or what ever it is called found the out when the kicked the Indy cars out, and only let them back in on probation If ENOUGH fans showed up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

I just saw the details (or lack thereof) of the new engine formula on Versus. Other than Honda, who is still at the table? Unless one of those that crossed it off the list last year comes back (or someone new shows up), aren't we still just looking at Honda?

VW seemed the best bet, but they didn't seem to leave any doubt about where they stood once they left the table. So Honda and...??? Any ideas or rumors?

---

I've heard Lotus being interested earlier this year. Heck, they're sponsoring a car with a Honda engine lol. :D Must be interested in doing something.