The world of Fiero, so he has spoken, so it shall be.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

actually I was wrong about the US.

Private donations by Americans expected to top those for Katrina....
$6.47 BILLION!!!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sharing...onations_N.htm

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Paul Volcker was in Davo's at that G20 meeting and he was quoted somewhere on the Canadian networks praising us for what we have sent. There is no medal for which nations give the most per capita, but I always notice the two nations who never seem to run out of money or resoureces to help in disasters are the USA and Canada. Maybe the EC nations do their thing as well, and I am sure they have done a lot. It is the nature of rich nations with a rich Judeo-Christian culture to want to help and give. Just one seems to be singled out if they don't do "enough" and it is wrong....

To know just how much the USA tries to help, was it not Iran that accepted aid from the US in the 90's when a terrible earth tremor leveled the city of Qum? No matter how much the two countries don't get along, the US was all set to help. Funny....I didn't see Iran offering any help when the Hurricanes hit the US hard in 06...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

You say you don't hate Americans or America? Funny way of showing it chum. Cant wait to hear what you say about Canadians.....

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Mark just because i dont agree with a certain band of people does not mean i hate them...

In actual fact most of my friends are actually American.....

Canadians? Great bunch of people...seriously :)

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

You just called the USA a big bag of poo. That's nice...you go overseas to football games and start fights? I guarntee you walk around most American cities calling their town a bag of poo, even if the city IS one, you will be asking for a fight. I dont think you HATE America, but the fact we are even having the discussion should put a filter on your mouth on some of the things you accuse them of.

Are they nasty and ugly on a holiday? Some of them are, and I have heard people who work in resorts hate drunken and stupid Brits at times. Germans? God knows they expose parts they shouldn't and stay drunk all the time. Italians? Cant get them from shutting up and making a lot of noise? The French? Gawd, they don't even like themselves. As I said; get a grip every nation has its morons, clods and jerks. If you cant figure that out, maybe you might be one. Steve, I am being harsh because you just dump on a country and play to every negative stereotype you can name and if you had done that about blacks or jews, some countries would be looking at you for hate speech. Get a grip son, you know better than that and I know you do.

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Well Mark yes you are correct in the fact that every country has its fair share of morons..i am not disputing that at all.

What i meant by a big pag of poo is the fact that the US isnt really doing well what with mass unemployment and so forth. (just like other major countries) Why not help their own people out, like every other country should before they start poking around aother countries. Hell i wish our government would do that instead of donating money to everyone but their own.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

You say you don't hate Americans or America? Funny way of showing it chum. Cant wait to hear what you say about Canadians.....

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I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I hate you. Heck, I don't even hate anthonyvop.

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Originally Posted by Eki

I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I hate you. Heck, I don't even hate anthonyvop.

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See there Mark, I told you Eki didn't hate us.

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Originally Posted by steve_spackman

Most Americans have no clue what the UN is anyway so yeah why pay for something you have no clue about eh? ;) Also the US has a habit of ignoring the UN so why in the hell bother at all????

Hate is a strong word Mark. Im sure you know i dont HATE Americans, i just find alot of them to be VERY ignorant and think they can do as they please. That would be why alot of people (not including myself) HATE them. You have to admit they do poke their noses in where its not wanted...trying to tell others how they should run their country, when their country is in a BIG bag of poo aswell...

charity begins at home does it not?

The main reason why the US and others help these poor countries is because they play the "hearts and minds" game. We will give this and that if you guys do this and that for us...Its NOT to help them its to get what they want out of them...

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Everytime I read something you post of a political nature I can't help but to believe you can't be older than 16 and it makes me wonder about the history you were taught, and how it was presented. I expect the USA to get slagged by people of different nationalities and Eki's attitude doesn't come as a shock considering the relationships that Finland and the USA have had together. But coming from people that display the English flag or the Union Jack for the UK irritates me at the least and sometimes angers me. Especially when you flip the Holier-Than-Thou switch to the on position. If we were in my living room by the fire and you started spitting out your garbage, I don't know if I would politely tell you to leave or just snatch you by the scruff of your neck and back of your trousers and throw you out.

Prior to WW I, almost everybody was in the empire building business. You have such notables as the Hudson's Bay Company, a monopoly set up to exploit local populations in the fur trade. The Royal African Company, a slave trading company credited with the delivery of at least one third of the slaves delivered to America, and the famous English East India Company. When China had the audacity to sieze a huge cargo of illegal opium from a British ship, Britain came back and stomped a mud hole in them until they had their cargo back, compensation, and Hong Kong, from which they would operate as they pleased. How about the Suez Canal? A project Britain wanted nothing to do with until it was up and running. Once adjustments were made to make it profitable, Britain snached control of it and kept control of it for the next 70+ years. Marching into Afghanistan to block the Russians from marching into the English East India Company.

It was the Era of Pax Britannica. The British Empire was the largest in the world. It created the expression "The sun never sets on the British Empire" because at any time of day some part of the empire was in daylight due to it's vast span. The British Empire was the self-appointed policeman of the world, meddled everywhere, and did as it wished.

The USA built the Panama Canal, for the use of all nations.

Fast forward to the last year of WWI. Russia, broke and exhausted, is already out of it. France, Britain, and Germany are at a standstill again. All three countries have squandered an entire generation of young men in futile attacks so stupidly conceived that their leaders should have been hung on criminal charges. They were all broke and had suffering civillian populations at home. They all knew that the USA would make the winning side. President Wilson had vowed to stay out of the war and, with the exception of playing fast and loose with the rules by supplying England and France with food, fuel, and war material, did so. When the plans of Germany to form an alliance with Mexico to attack the USA came to light, Wilson asked for and got a Declaration of War against Germany. Did the USA win the war? Nope, the war was ended by an armistice, but the USA, by coming in, ended the war. Although Wilson tried to push his League of Nations and mercy for the defeated policy, he was overruled by France and Britain. Both of them made real estate claims and outrageous compensation demands that Germany had no choice but to agree to. Britain and France became major players in the Middle East, Africa, and the Far East. Wilson adopts a policy that the USA should support democratic causes world wide.

Now comes WW II. The American people want to stay out of this one too. President Roosevelt is not going to let Britain go down. His own ambassador tells him to let Britain go, but he won't do it. Instead he embarks upon all kinds of legal, sort of legal, and not even close to legal programs to keep food, fuel, war material, and equipment flowing into Britain. Amercan civillians donated personal weapons to be shipped to Britain for arming the Home Guard. After the war, the British Empire was on the way out. Britain was damn near bankrupt and the USA lent them $ 4.3 bn which I believe was finally paid off in 2006. Britain got caught up in the Malayan Emergency fight communist insurgents for 10 years or so. Nassar tossed France and Britain out of Egypt and nationalized the canal. Leading France and Britain to concoct a plan with Israel to take it back by baiting Eisenhower and the USA into it but Ike didn't bite. So Nasser went ahead and natioalized the British banks while he was at it. Britain created Israel. Britain created the India-Pakistan partition (borders) that are the source of brotherly love to this day. Britain leaned on and then monitored the elections that saw Rhodesia go from a productive, food exporting nation to the starving hell hole Mugabe calls Zimbabwe. Seems like everywhere you've been, somebody else has had to go, to keep wiping up the crap that spills out of your kid's diaper. Somalia, well...

At the end of WW II, the spread of communism from the Soviet Union and Red China was taken very seriously and very much feared. The Domino Theory, if one small country falls to communism, each small country next to it will topple also, was a major concern. This may seem silly to you now, but it wasn't then. The possibility of the USSR starting an unprovoked war was a question of when, not if. You're talking about countries that built walls to keep their people in and shot them if they tried to escape. The only country big and strong enough to arm for the cold war to safeguard Europe and fight the brush wars to protect against the domino theory was the USA. So we did. When the USSR blockaded Berlin to starve a concession from them, the US Air Force and the RAF began an incredible airlift of supplies to Berlin that finally broke the Soviet blockade.

I really can't think of any meddling the USA has done since the end of WWII that was done for the sole and exclusive good of the USA. We get nothing out of aiding Israel. We get nothing out of our emergency aid except to be spit on again once they are feeling better. We didn't get a discount on oil when the Saudis asked us to come in and protect them from Saddam and Iraq. When Britain went to get the Falklands back we gave logistic and intelligence support. If you ever get a chance to see unclassified cold war plans for a Soviet invasion of Europe during the cold war, you might be amazed to see how much effort, equipment, manpower, money, food, fuel, and defensive weapontry was earmarked to save the UK. Bunches.

We have done a lot for the world, many times when others couldn't or wouldn't. We have done a hell of a lot for Britain. The USA and Britain have done much together. Has the USA always done the right thing? No, but that's through the benefit of hindsight. I can't think of anything anybody can do, that will please everybody all the time. The more people look to you for a solution, the more often that will happen.

Just once, I'd like to see one of you say "I appreciate what you've done for us and maybe some of that is the reason I'm even here, but I sure wish you'd have done ( your cause here ) differently.

Mr. Spackman, should you ever show up at my door freezing, tired, and hungry, I'll invite you in, set you by the fire, feed you supper until you're full and let you sleep on the sofa. But when you wake up, you're leaving.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

We have done a lot for the world, many times when others couldn't or wouldn't. We have done a hell of a lot for Britain. The USA and Britain have done much together. Has the USA always done the right thing? No, but that's through the benefit of hindsight. I can't think of anything anybody can do, that will please everybody all the time. The more people look to you for a solution, the more often that will happen.

Just once, I'd like to see one of you say "I appreciate what you've done for us and maybe some of that is the reason I'm even here, but I sure wish you'd have done ( your cause here ) differently.

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Well of course the US has done alot of good in this world...who hasnt in some sense or another?

Just because i dont agree with alot of things doesnt mean i hate the country...far from it actually. As i dont agree with alot of things my own country does, does that make me hate England??

I spend alot of time in the US as i have family there. I have met ALOT of great people through my travels and enjoy the culture

Its my views politically that you dont agree with..thats fine. My political views are different from my views on the actual people and the actual country....

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Originally Posted by steve_spackman

Well of course the US has done alot of good in this world...who hasnt in some sense or another?

Just because i dont agree with alot of things doesnt mean i hate the country...far from it actually. As i dont agree with alot of things my own country does, does that make me hate England??

I spend alot of time in the US as i have family there. I have met ALOT of great people through my travels and enjoy the culture

Its my views politically that you dont agree with..thats fine. My political views are different from my views on the actual people and the actual country....

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Steve, you doth protest too much. The point is I know you are a good guy outside of the forums, and often in it. We agree on nothing politically apparently but I get that. What I was pointing out is you were condeming the USA as if they were just the problem, and if you read Fiero's very accurate history of events, the British Empire has a LOT more blood on its hands, and the sad part is, It wasn't even the most egregious violator. The French and Spanish had even worse colonies. At least the British Empire's possessions were given a stable system of government and some form of competance in the wake of their leaving.

What people in their criticism of the US have to acknowledge is for the amount of power the US has posessesd, it has actually done the LEAST amount of imperial conquest, and has only really gotten invovled outside when dragged into it until Iraq came along.

Even with Iraq, most of the Arab nations leaders had no problem with the Iraq war. The people protested only because there are many in the Islamic world who resent anyone coming who isn't Muslim to fix what the Muslim world WONT fix. The USA probably should have stayed away...but i do know that American Isolationsism led to two World War's dragging them right back in to tip the balance of power. It is the most benign of the three superpowers on the planet (Russia still has its fangs, and China is......well China) and the only one that takes the heat for what it does...and doens't do.

On here, it gets slagged, bashed, criticized and malinged, and while I am not an American, I take offense to some of it. I can tell you guys, I live beside the elephant, if he was dangerous, I would let you know. HE can be annoying...but we are glad to have him, and 90% of Canadians when pressed will tell you the same...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

What people in their criticism of the US have to acknowledge is for the amount of power the US has posessesd, it has actually done the LEAST amount of imperial conquest, and has only really gotten invovled outside when dragged into it until Iraq came along.

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What dragged them into Korea and Vietnam?

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Steve, you doth protest too much. The point is I know you are a good guy outside of the forums, and often in it. We agree on nothing politically apparently but I get that. What I was pointing out is you were condeming the USA as if they were just the problem, and if you read Fiero's very accurate history of events, the British Empire has a LOT more blood on its hands, and the sad part is, It wasn't even the most egregious violator. The French and Spanish had even worse colonies. At least the British Empire's possessions were given a stable system of government and some form of competance in the wake of their leaving.

What people in their criticism of the US have to acknowledge is for the amount of power the US has posessesd, it has actually done the LEAST amount of imperial conquest, and has only really gotten invovled outside when dragged into it until Iraq came along.

Even with Iraq, most of the Arab nations leaders had no problem with the Iraq war. The people protested only because there are many in the Islamic world who resent anyone coming who isn't Muslim to fix what the Muslim world WONT fix. The USA probably should have stayed away...but i do know that American Isolationsism led to two World War's dragging them right back in to tip the balance of power. It is the most benign of the three superpowers on the planet (Russia still has its fangs, and China is......well China) and the only one that takes the heat for what it does...and doens't do.

On here, it gets slagged, bashed, criticized and malinged, and while I am not an American, I take offense to some of it. I can tell you guys, I live beside the elephant, if he was dangerous, I would let you know. HE can be annoying...but we are glad to have him, and 90% of Canadians when pressed will tell you the same...

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Oh yes i agree that our Empire was made with the spilling of blood..and lots of it too..

My political views may not be the same with others, but doesnt mean i HATE....