Renault get a 2 year suspended ban

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

So with tongue firmly in cheek, any team can commit a serious offence, and get a suspended sentence, as the FiA/Bernie are desperate to keep as many Manufacturers/Teams as possible.......


.....something isn't right!!

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That's the wrong way to look at it.
Just think that in either case (McLaren or Renault) hundreds of people would lose their jobs if the team is thrown out of the sport.

PS: I'm a bit surprised how many people would have wanted Renault to be thrown out of F1 even though McLaren were excused for a big offense 2 years ago.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Exactly. The difference in the approach the two teams took is enormous and the result is well deserved.

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In truth, there is no comparison that can be made between the two, not morally and certainly not 'legally'. The only fair thing is for both cases to be judged individually; no precedents were set by the McLaren case that were in any way relevant to the Renault one.

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Originally Posted by henners88

First question: Nobody knows for sure how many were involved with this incident. Renault delivered a damage limitation plea.

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You mean everyone in the Renault team was aware about Flav and Pat ordering Jr. to crash?
Maybe they did hold a referendum just before teh race to see if everyone agrees?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Second question: Mclaren reported the spying incident to the FIA, Piquet reported the Renault incident.

;) ;) ;)

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Wrong answer. A copy shop worker reported the spying incident to Ferrari who reported it to the FIA.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Wasn't Mike Coughlan released with immediate effect back in 2007 for his role in the spying saga?

Under that basis why on earth did everyone scream scapegoat when Dave Ryan was sacked??

Struggling here, help me out...

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IIRC Coughlan was put on administrative leave or something like that.

Renno fired their team boss - McLaren simply put someone who was obviously involved in shady doings on 'administrative leave'

As for the Dave Ryan thing that was very much a facepalm incident and I don't know why anyone got fired for that. Comically stupid little incident and tbh I don't think it's comparable to either of the other incidents. It was a cockup., nothing more nothing less.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Wasn't Mike Coughlan released with immediate effect back in 2007 for his role in the spying saga?

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No, he wasn't.

McLaren carried out their own internal investigation and decided there was nothing fishy.
They later suspended Coughlan but he was not fired until a few months later when it was obvious for everyone that McLaren made used of the Ferrari data.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

IIRC Coughlan was put on administrative leave or something like that.

Renno fired their team boss - McLaren simply put someone who was obviously involved in shady doings on 'administrative leave'

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It's all very well for us to say 'obviously involved' now, but there are issues of employment law to be considered here. In this respect, there are probably further differences between the two cases. As I said, drawing comparisons, whether moral, legal or factual, between them is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Excuse me?! What expense of the sport?
It would have been at the expense of the sport if Renault were to be thrown out because of one scumbags dirty dealings.

You're again trying to pin everything on the FIA when the fault lies with that bloody cheater Flab.

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Yes, I am critical of the FIA, or rather Max's stewardship of the FIA, because I don't think the issue of cheating has been dealt with. Renault - the team - were charged by the FIA and found guilty of the charges brought against them. Effectively their penalty is to be told "don't do it again." This from the WMSC that described Renault's breach of the rules as being of "unparalleled severity".

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I doubt that many will truly care. It's not even the biggest sport-related story on the BBC News front page today - Bobby Robson's memorial service is.

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Well it is the headline story on http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/ at the moment, but I guess you're right. Attention will focus elsewhere very soon.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

It's all very well for us to say 'obviously involved' now, but there are issues of employment law to be considered here. In this respect, there are probably further differences between the two cases. As I said, drawing comparisons, whether moral, legal or factual, between them is irrelevant.

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Fair point. But then again I'm sure Coughlan coughed up to being in possession of the Ferrari docs so his involvement was most likely known about. Of course I'm speculating but it's not impossible that McLaren merely wanted to be seen to be doing the bare minimum that needed to be done whilst not doing anything which was a clear admission of guilt.

2 years later people still think McLaren did nothing wrong yet no one will ever doubt that Flabio was guilty.

I think this sends a clear message, do something wrong and you'll be punished - try to cover it up and we'll rip your nuts off.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

2 years later people still think McLaren did nothing wrong yet no one will ever doubt that Flabio was guilty.

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I don't know why but I'm not surprised. ;)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I think this sends a clear message, do something wrong and you'll be punished - try to cover it up and we'll rip your nuts off.

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Sums it up perfectly.

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Originally Posted by ioan

For the very same reason a team found guilty of cheating during 2007 went racing the next week end after the WMSC hearing.

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Yup. McLaren and Renault (twice) have been found guilty by the WMSC of the charges brought against them and have continued racing. BAR-Honda, on the other hand, were banned for 2 races for having an illegal fuel tank.