Rise of the Phoenix?

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

Let me clarify. I was talking about the "fans" that are rah rahing this potential series, not the investors. IMO the investors are just trying to make a buck and there is nothing against that. But I can't take any "fans" who think this is a good idea seriously, can you Gary? You know their motivation.

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Do I? Do you? Are you lurking on the old "crapwagon" sites and taking what they might be saying as the opinion of ALL the potential fans of this series? (I have no idea what is or is not being said there. I quit looking MONTHS ago.) The point is, it is much to early to tell WHO the fans might be, because we don't know yet what the series even is. If it doesn't try to position itself as a rival to ICS, then I might be a fan too.

As I said before in your rush to judgment, you are turning this into another of your "us versus them" arguments. I am having none of it. Until I know what this series is beyond the PR fluff we have seen thus far, I am reserving further judgment beyond my initial claim that it won't be around a year from now based SOLELY on it being an arrive and drive business model.

Gary

I'm going by the guys who have posted here in support of this new series. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me that their only motivation is to see "Green" race cars. BS.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Do I? Do you? Are you lurking on the old "crapwagon" sites and taking what they might be saying as the opinion of ALL the potential fans of this series? (I have no idea what is or is not being said there. I quit looking MONTHS ago.) The point is, it is much to early to tell WHO the fans might be, because we don't know yet what the series even is. If it doesn't try to position itself as a rival to ICS, then I might be a fan too.

As I said before in your rush to judgment, you are turning this into another of your "us versus them" arguments. I am having none of it. Until I know what this series is beyond the PR fluff we have seen thus far, I am reserving further judgment beyond my initial claim that it won't be around a year from now based SOLELY on it being an arrive and drive business model.

Gary

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Who wouldn't want to see a Champcar turn its wheels in anger once again, or a CanAm car or a turbo F-1 or a Group c, or a.... People can be "excited" about Greenprix with no thought whatsoever about TG or the big picture of AOWR in general....

Also, a formula is a formula. The only cars that are CLEARLY technologically above an IRL car are F-1 cars and ALMS prototypes... I think all the other formulas mentioned are not much different from the IRL in that they are spec chassis and engines that all have rev limiters, carbon chassis and appropriately advanced aero-dynamics for their purpose... They amy be newer - but that does not necessarily mean better....

Good Point Chris R.

I would support Green Prix because I love Champ Cars, not because I hate TG (I do, but so do most people). I would also love to see turbo F1 racing again, or GTP cars. How sweet would that be!

Racing was so much cooler in the 1980s

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Originally Posted by nickfalzone

And which of those actually run 200+ mph on ovals? Oh yeah, none. .

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"YAWN"

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Originally Posted by nickfalzone

They're all road course-specific cars, not comparable. Regardless of the Honda/Dallara technology, it's a solid spec that has run its course and within 2 years will have a successor. .

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You can hope

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Originally Posted by nickfalzone

Is this other series offering a new spec in that timeframe, or any? No.

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the DP01 is a generation and a half ahead of the IRL Dallara Chassis. The Reynard is of the same generation as the Dallara.

1. Sorry 200 doesn't register with you.
2. Already in process....it will.
3. Please explain to us how far ahead the DP01 is ahead on ovals and even what the major difference might be on a road course. If the Dallara is slower, you already said 200 doesn't mean anything, so I guess slower doesn't mean anything, either. Doesn't compute, anthony.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

"YAWN"


You can hope


the DP01 is a generation and a half ahead of the IRL Dallara Chassis. The Reynard is of the same generation as the Dallara.

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Fair enough, though the Dallara has had many updates along the way. Interestingly the times of the Dallara in 08 were fairly competitive with CC times at the same tracks like Edmonton. Today's Australia practice times were 2-3 secs off last year's DP01 times with top IRL times same as bottom CC times, so it's an exaggeration to say the IRL cars are so off the pace on the roads/streets. Handling and shocks may lead to some problems, but the speed is good for cars that are not road specific designs.

Just the fact that some people have thier panties all in a bunch over this shows they think it might not actually be so irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by nickfalzone

Fair enough, though the Dallara has had many updates along the way. Interestingly the times of the Dallara in 08 were fairly competitive with CC times at the same tracks like Edmonton. Today's Australia practice times were 2-3 secs off last year's DP01 times with top IRL times same as bottom CC times, so it's an exaggeration to say the IRL cars are so off the pace on the roads/streets. Handling and shocks may lead to some problems, but the speed is good for cars that are not road specific designs.

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Um, IRL is 4 or 5 seconds off the pace. If you want to start comparing the fastest IRL to slowest CC's that were off the pace, you better be careful not to lose your rose colored glasses when comparing Atlantic to the IRL at Edmonton or else you might be in for a shock.

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Originally Posted by bennybigb

Good Point Chris R.

I would support Green Prix because I love Champ Cars, not because I hate TG (I do, but so do most people). I would also love to see turbo F1 racing again, or GTP cars. How sweet would that be!

Racing was so much cooler in the 1980s

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Originally Posted by Chris R

Who wouldn't want to see a Champcar turn its wheels in anger once again, or a CanAm car or a turbo F-1 or a Group c, or a.... People can be "excited" about Greenprix with no thought whatsoever about TG or the big picture of AOWR in general....

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

I'm going by the guys who have posted here in support of this new series. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me that their only motivation is to see "Green" race cars. BS.

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Ok, I'll oblige you. You are wrong! See the two quotes above your's. Am I saying that ALL of those who have posted on this subject are not TG haters. Of course not. But you, on the other had are trying to say that they all are. You are wrong. Some of them, including me are in the same camp as Chris R. I would love to see those CCWS cars again, just like I'd love to see Can Am cars again. Not in the context of the old CCWS cars in a series trying to compete with ICS, or the CAN-AM cars in a series trying to compete with ALMS. No, I don't want to see that. But in the context of a vintage series, or a exhibition series, or some other minor role in the grand scheme of things, hell ya. That's why I, unlike you, am waiting to see how this really plays out before I start hating it.

Gary

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Originally Posted by CCWS77

Just the fact that some people have thier panties all in a bunch over this shows they think it might not actually be so irrelevant.



Um, IRL is 4 or 5 seconds off the pace. If you want to start comparing the fastest IRL to slowest CC's that were off the pace, you better be careful not to lose your rose colored glasses when comparing Atlantic to the IRL at Edmonton or else you might be in for a shock.

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They're not 4-5 secs, they're 2-3 secs off last years pace of a supposedly generation and a half newer car. I see 34s from Will and 31s from last year's qualifying. And once again, Atlantics, Formula cars, or whatever road-racing cars you want to bring up are not a direct comparison. I'm not suggesting that the IRL is a great street racing car... but for a spec that was primarily designed for oval-racing, it has done reasonably well on the old cart tracks. And as has been said many times before, no one in attendance can tell a few secs per lap difference from the stands, so until we get back to the point where the cars are trying to break track records, just enjoy it for the competitive racing.