Is Sebastien Bourdais that bad?

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16th August 2008, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravefish

Nicola Larini was the last Italian to drive for Ferrari (but dont let little snippets of facts ruin your argument)

There is no doubt that his 2nd place at the San Marino GP would have been superb hype for the Italian media had it not been overshadowed by a few other incidents that weekend...

However we can agree on one thing - the Ferrari back then was indeed a dog...

Larini did not have a full-time race contract, though, did he? Read my post.

He was subbing for the injured Alesi.

But don't let failure to read a post or actual facts ruin your argument.
16th August 2008, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravefish

You cant beat patriotic pride and any time a driver of the same nationality as the team gets together its fantastic for the media and the sport.

Only when the results are good.

When they are bad to below-average, and Renault's post-2006 results have been (with 2 lucky exceptions) just that, it's a fecking nightmare.

Had, for example, Renault replaced the then Mclaren-bound Alonso with Bourdais, there would have been an initial buzz in the French media which would have then turned to lambasting either Renault or Bourdais for failure.

One good headline doesn't do any good if the other 20+ are full of vilification.
17th August 2008, 00:22
Mad_Hatter

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCWS77

What if the Porshe driver wants to take out wing and the team says no we cant this car wasnt made to run like that just learn to drive it as it is? By all accounts including Vettel's that is what they told bourdais. The idea a driver has to just learn to live with that is crazy. If you take that postion then the traditional idea of a driver even learning how to setup a car is a meaningless waste of time since it will be given to them. There is a theoretical best setup according to the laws of physics which probably could be figured out by computer and lab testing with no driver input. Just use that then and the driver just has to becomes a robot that can drive anything. Fun?

From what I've read it's not as simple a common adjustment. It's an issue with how the chassis is designed. Again, STR doesn't "design" their car. They are more or less supplied them by Red Bull Racing. I doubt they are truly at will to make far-reaching changes for one driver. Also, I have a hard time believing that his engineering team would willingly forgo his feedback now considering how respectably he was doing with the STR2 or whatever car they started the season with.

The idea that he should adapt to the car is not "crazy". What would you suggest for endurance racing teams and their setups?
17th August 2008, 11:07
bravefish

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Larini did not have a full-time race contract, though, did he? Read my post.

He was subbing for the injured Alesi.

But don't let failure to read a post or actual facts ruin your argument.

Excellent stuff - cheers for the laugh - I could have written your post for you.
18th August 2008, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravefish

Excellent stuff - cheers for the laugh - I could have written your post for you.

Your welcome, but I don't think I'm quite ready to take your comedy Post mantle just yet.

But, just for the fun of it, please explain why, if Bourdais at Renault would be such a hot media ticket, did Renault not offer him the world to get him into the car back when he was in F3000?

After all, if it was such media dynamite, it is very unlikely the Renault boardroom would have let Flavio Briatore offer him what was, to Bourdais, a poor contract. They'd surely have been offering all sorts for that kind of media gold.

If your theory holds water....what made them let him go?
19th August 2008, 11:12
ZzZzZz

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Your welcome, but I don't think I'm quite ready to take your comedy Post mantle just yet.

But, just for the fun of it, please explain why, if Bourdais at Renault would be such a hot media ticket, did Renault not offer him the world to get him into the car back when he was in F3000?

After all, if it was such media dynamite, it is very unlikely the Renault boardroom would have let Flavio Briatore offer him what was, to Bourdais, a poor contract. They'd surely have been offering all sorts for that kind of media gold.

If your theory holds water....what made them let him go?

Because like you, they are under Flavio's spell?

If he was so worthless, why was Flavio so insistent on signing him for a career-long management contract? Pulling a bait-and-switch when he showed up for the test, not allowing him in the car unless he signed? Why pull such a stunt on a mediocre driver with no promise?

Clearly, his F3000 performance merited an invitation to test from Renault. Someone was interested in him. Then, when he refused to sign, Flavio slandered him (along with *all* French drivers, including Montagny by inference). Why would he do *that*? What suddenly changed other than refusing to give Flavio a huge cut of his career earnings? Nothing. The slander was to take the eyes off himself for his corrupt conflicted interest in running the team. That simple.

(As a side note, Montagny is now an AGR driver in ALMS and may soon have an Indy Car test.)
19th August 2008, 13:20
BobGarage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzZzZz

(As a side note, Montagny is now an AGR driver in ALMS and may soon have an Indy Car test.)

he's already had an IndyCar test, at the start of the month at Kentucky ;)
19th August 2008, 15:48
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzZzZz

Because like you, they are under Flavio's spell?

If he was so worthless, why was Flavio so insistent on signing him for a career-long management contract? Pulling a bait-and-switch when he showed up for the test, not allowing him in the car unless he signed? Why pull such a stunt on a mediocre driver with no promise?

Why, because Flavio takes care of Flavio first. Always has, always will. This says nothing about Sebastian's skill, positive or negative. It was a case of Flavio covering his own interests FIRST, in case the kid DID look good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzZzZz

Clearly, his F3000 performance merited an invitation to test from Renault. Someone was interested in him. Then, when he refused to sign, Flavio slandered him (along with *all* French drivers, including Montagny by inference). Why would he do *that*? What suddenly changed other than refusing to give Flavio a huge cut of his career earnings? Nothing. The slander was to take the eyes off himself for his corrupt conflicted interest in running the team. That simple.

(As a side note, Montagny is now an AGR driver in ALMS and may soon have an Indy Car test.)

The rest I agree with 100%.

Gary
19th August 2008, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzZzZz

Because like you, they are under Flavio's spell?

The slander was to take the eyes off himself for his corrupt conflicted interest in running the team. That simple.

Yes, right, of course.

Renault would obviously be delighted to let a corrupt conflicted-interest individual dictate to them and let 'le enfant d'or' walk away and couldn't possibly have anything to do with the driver not being a mega talent.

How silly of me to think that a multi-national corporation and major car manufacturer wouldn't be hoodwinked like that.

Except, of course, that Renault did test Bourdais. They saw first-hand what he'd got.

If he'd have been mega, if he'd been the golden ticket to media glory, then the contract offer wouldn't have been such a poor one.

Now that is simple.
20th August 2008, 21:40
pits4me

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

If he'd have been mega, if he'd been the golden ticket to media glory, then the contract offer wouldn't have been such a poor one.

Now that is simple.

Unless he was railroaded to a poor showing for obvious reasons.

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