Mosley won't stand for another term

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8th August 2008, 10:46
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I have no doubt that the events of last year did a great deal of harm to the sport but McLaren have been fined $100m and removed from the 2007 WCC. They've been punished for their part in events.

:laugh:

So if a person kills another person and than goes to jail that's it he's absolved of his wrongdoings and is equal to those who never harmed anyone!

You make me laugh with your tries to ilogically back up your bias.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That, however, is no form of defence for Max and his indefensible comments about a 3xWDC. I have little doubt that if someone in F1 (i.e. under the jurisdiction of the FIA), perhaps a team owner, described the FIA President as a "certified halfwit" and a "failure" they would be hauled in front of the FIA to explain their comments at the very least.

And how exactly is Mosely bringing the sport into disrepute by expressing his opinion about someone else?!
Oh I see, it must be that way because you want to see it like that!

Your hatred for Max is puzzling me. Any chance you are Ron Dennis, Martin Withmarsh or Norbert Haug?!
8th August 2008, 10:48
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Please give the whole "McCheats, Ronspeak, lying etc" BS a brake then.

It's history, the team have been punished and the McLaren fans have accepted it.

It's a bit rich and hypocritical to ask people to stop discussing a current issue when you can't leave alone something that's done and dusted.

:rolleyes:

You better learn to live with it. They are proven cheaters and liars, and I do not intend to give up on my right on expressing an opinion about them.

PS: I'll be more than willing to give the team a new chance when the cheaters an liars have retired.
8th August 2008, 11:05
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

So if a person kills another person and than goes to jail that's it he's absolved of his wrongdoings and is equal to those who never harmed anyone!

No. That's not what I was saying at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

And how exactly is Mosely bringing the sport into disrepute by expressing his opinion about someone else?

1)Max is FIA President. Jackie Stewart is a champion and winning constructor in the sport that the FIA governs.
2) "Certified halfwit" is not opinion, it's an insult. Describing Stewart as a failure is factually incorrect.
8th August 2008, 11:21
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

You better learn to live with it. They are proven cheaters and liars, and I do not intend to give up on my right on expressing an opinion about them.

PS: I'll be more than willing to give the team a new chance when the cheaters an liars have retired.

So, you think it's OK for you to ask people to stop expressing their opinion as they have a right to do but see no hypocrisy in harping on about something historical which has no relevance to the current subject.

No problem, you have a right to do that but do you ever wonder why very few people take you seriously?

Yes, yes, I know. Nobody takes me seriously yada, yada, yada will be the response. :laugh:

Still, I do try and use facts to back up my opinions where you generally refuse when challenged.

Come on, do you really believe half the stuff you argue about?
8th August 2008, 11:23
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

No. That's not what I was saying at all.

That's exactly what you were saying. Than offender should be considered absolved of his guilt after being punished.

I don't see it that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

1)Max is FIA President. Jackie Stewart is a champion and winning constructor in the sport that the FIA governs.
2) "Certified halfwit" is not opinion, it's an insult. Describing Stewart as a failure is factually incorrect.

Why isn't certified halfwit an opinion :?:

And for whatever reason Stewart sold his team and went on to become a noisy old man often talking BS. In fact his opinions are very biased towards British teams and drivers.
8th August 2008, 11:25
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

So, you think it's OK for you to ask people to stop expressing their opinion as they have a right to do but see no hypocrisy in harping on about something historical which has no relevance to the current subject.

I'm still to see any proof, of the sport being brought into disrepute by Mosley, from Arrows or from you.

You can post your opinion, he can post his, but I dare to challenge it as long as what you post is only BS.
8th August 2008, 11:32
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I'm still to see any proof, of the sport being brought into disrepute by Mosley, from Arrows or from you.

You can post your opinion, he can post his, but I dare to challenge it as long as what you post is only BS.

OK, what is the criteria for bringing the sport into disrepute. It's hardly a measurable quality.

Is it having the President refused entry to GP's?
Is it international ridicule in the media.
Is it people in pubs who never knew who Max was laughing about his antics?
Is it being paid to sell the commercial rights of F1 for a 10th of their value?
Is it lying to the media?
Is it conducting a personal vendetta against a team?
Is it insulting a 3 times WDC and ambassador for the sport?

I've lots more. So, what is your measure or shall we dispose with the semantics of the word and say that someone that has committed just 1 of those misdemeanours isn't fit to run the FIA.
8th August 2008, 11:56
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it having the President refused entry to GP's?

No. I can't see how could they do it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it international ridicule in the media.

Not sure I understand the sentence! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it people in pubs who never knew who Max was laughing about his antics?

Didn't see anyone doing it around here. People hardly know who Max is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it being paid to sell the commercial rights of F1 for a 10th of their value?

What does that have to do with the sport being brought into disrepute?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it lying to the media?

You talking about Ron Dennis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it conducting a personal vendetta against a team?

What vendetta? What team?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Is it insulting a 3 times WDC and ambassador for the sport?

How can you call ambasador of the sport someone who denigrates the sport?! Who talks about witch hunts and so on?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I've lots more.

Bring it on then, maybe we find something really valuable, that would support your allegations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

So, what is your measure or shall we dispose with the semantics of the word and say that someone that has committed just 1 of those misdemeanours isn't fit to run the FIA.

The day when teams and / or will quit the sport because of Mosley, I will acknowledge he that he was detrimental to the sport.
However there is no such, only the BS you and Arrows dreamed up.
8th August 2008, 11:58
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

"Certified halfwit" is not opinion, it's an insult. Describing Stewart as a failure is factually incorrect.

To be fair to both parties here...JS was and still is a great driver. His mouth, on the other hand, is not so great :(
8th August 2008, 12:36
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

That's exactly what you were saying. Than offender should be considered absolved of his guilt after being punished.

No ioan, again that's your interpretation. Exactly what I said was "McLaren have been fined $100m and removed from the 2007 WCC. They've been punished for their part in events" i.e. they've been found guilty and punished.

It would seem that you would continue to punish an offender, any offender, despite them having served the sentence imposed by the relevant authority. Doing so appears to be the only defence you have for Max Mosley.

The FIA President's comments about Jackie Stewart are a different issue. Yes, Max made them in the light of JYS expressing his opinion of the way the FIA dealt with the McLaren case, but in my view the comments have been insulting and totally inappropriate for an FIA President to make of an F1 World Champion.

For a comparison take a look how one team owner disagreed with JYS's opinion expressed about his own team:

Quote:

"I have enormous respect for Sir Jackie, he was one of grand prix racing's truly great world champions. Equally, we're always willing to accept constructive criticism... .the fact is that Sir Jackie retired from motor racing in 1973, which is 35 years ago, and the sport has moved on in that time...

It wouldn't have been hard for the FIA President to express his disagreement in a similar way, but then it wouldn't have been Max would it. Max holds a grudge and two issues stand out in that respect. 1) JYS was not entirely complimentary about car Max's March organisation provided to the Tyrrell team for much of the 1970 season, and then 2) the demands from the FIA of the Stewart F1 team to provide guarantees that they had the finances in place to compete in their second season.

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