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Interestingly of those listed only one featured on the Champ Car schedule last season, meaning they had already crossed over to IRL (a kind way of saying nicked). Also Texas is only very technically and from a certain view it isnt a former Champ Car track as they never actually raced there, the cars were just too damn fast for the place!!Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
OrQuote:
Originally Posted by MDS
Inspite of having all the teams, all the cars and all the stars they couldn't put together a better package.
Regarding weak venues, is it not the responsibility of the promoter/track operator to make it a marquee event.
I can't understand why TG's vision is so hard to understand:
1. Maintain the Indianapolis 500 as the ultimate open wheel event in the US.
2. Provide the teams that participate in the Indianapolis 500 with a schedule of races which owners can use to justify the expense of building/buying a car for Indianapolis as well as provide more exposure for the teams' sponsor(s).
3. Maintain costs at a reasonable level so more teams can participate.
I really believe he could care less when and where the IndyCars race so long as the majority of the races are on ovals. He is letting his company's officers make business decisions regarding the schedule. Sentiment doesn't carry much weight on a P & L statement or calendar. If it makes business sense(date and finances), it will be on the schedule.
No Surfers????????? No Cleveland??????????? and theY finish in Homestead-Miami during hurricane season?????????? What idiot came up with this plan?
I JUST DON'T GET IT.
It's hard to understand because it keeps changing, but if it's as you describe, it has failed at #2 (half or more empty bleachers at all the other events) and #3 (only three teams have enough sponsorship to cover the costs of competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
It's hard to understand because it keeps changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
Originally it was:
1. More American drivers
1995 6 American drivers in the top 10
2008 3 American drivers in the top 10
2. More ovals
1999 9 ovals
2008 10 ovals
3. Provide a stepping stone from USAC to the Indy 500
There is one USAC driver in the series who just happened to marry the boss's daughter.
4. Lower costs
With the deminished rating there is actually less ROI than there was in 1995 and therefore a higher cost, even with inflation factored in.
Now lets go through your list.
1. Maintain the Indianapolis 500 as the ultimate open wheel event in the US.
The Indy 500 used to be the ultimate racing event in the country. Now its the Daytona 500 routinely doubles its ratings.The 500 hasn't been the best attended race at the speedway in years.
2. Provide the teams that participate in the Indianapolis 500 with a schedule of races which owners can use to justify the expense of building/buying a car for Indianapolis as well as provide more exposure for the teams' sponsor(s).
Ratings and attendance are down across the board from 1995. So he failed at that one too.
3. Maintain costs at a reasonable level so more teams can participate.
Uhm, while there are roughly the same amount of full time teams the depth still isn't there.
So the guy with 100 percent control of AOWR doesn't care where it races. I know when anyone hires a CEO they always ask "Hey, find me the guy who could care less about a major aspect of our business and hire that guy. Also, make sure he set out a list of goals and failed at every single one of them and has only succeeded up until this point based on a bottomless pit of money given to him by insanely loyal people who don't care about the quality of the product. That's the guy we need to run this company"Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
Tony George needs to care passionately about all aspects of the sport, or else he needs to get out of the way, the faster the better.
How do you draw the conclusion that the ICS could care less, given as you said the existing contracts, financial obligations and lack of resources? With those constraints, what is it that you expect them to do to show they care???Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogelio
Again, given the constraints that you spelled out, what do you want them to do? Yeah I too, would like to see a few more of the old CART/Champ car tracks but the list I posted the other day does show that a lot of them are on the schedule it is NOT just Long Beach and Edmonton. I would like to see RA and Cleveland added for sure. But I realize the REALITY of the situation that NEITHER of these venues has a viable BUSINESS PLAN on the table to make it work. And like it or not from this point on, it will be business plans that rule the decisions. Not what you, I and other Internet fans would like to see happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogelio
Gary
One man's "nicked" is another man's "abandoned". But my point was that those of us who long for the glory days of CART, and I proudly include myself in those ranks, are seeing a lot of familiar tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by philipbain
You are right about Texas, it is only there on a technicality.
Gary
First, I know that I am contradicting myself, along with my expectations. Yet, my contradictions are no different than Terry Angstadt speaking on behalf of the ICS and the 2009 schuedule. The ICS, along with TG, is looking out for their own personal business interests (just like any other business). TG wanted nothing more than for the Champ Car series to fold and it did. Now, that it is out of the way, all he cares about is attracting the races he desires. Again, as we all know, this was not a merger, but a mere capitulation by some of the Amigos who chose not to throw theire money away anymore. TG does not care about the needs of the former Champ Car community and he probably should not. He won the war of attrition. Had Champ Car won, we would have taken the Indy 500 and all the other races could go to hell in a hand basket. Many of those races (Portland and Mexico City) may have been money losers. However, the reason they began to lose money was becasue of many factors (split, lack of promotion, lack of revenue). The "unified" series has a lot of potential and in my opinion, we should do our best to tap into the markets rather than shy away. Therefore, TG could care less about accomodating the former races of CC on the 2009 schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Second, I personally believe that there has been a serious lack of communication with the CC fan base regarding this so-called "merger". I am still on-board because I love open-wheel racing, but the reality is that many did not follow along. Many were probably sickened by KK's insincere bullsh*t. While a loathe Forsythe for not bringing PT with him to the ICS, I also admire him for sticking to his anti-TG beliefs. This might be farfetched, but it would not be asking much for a little communication with the former CC fan base that some of their races might be included in the future (yet I know that Cleveland and Surfers are on the table). I know that that is a ridculous concept but as the months go by, I am more convinced that TG has no vision and that perhaps the team owners were right in not dealing with his 1996 Indy 500.
Personally, I firmly believe that the 2009 schedule is a simple reflection of TG narrow minded philosophy regarding AOWR. As another poster wrote, why the heck are racing at Homestead during hurricane season? There are many questions that need to be answered and for this OWR fan, I am starting to question TG goals more so than I did in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogelio
I am still waiting for the BUSINESS PLAN for Portland and Mexico city that you think need to be on the schedule.
You clearly laid out the business constraints in your first message and then proceeded to ignore them. Why?
I too, would like to see those markets tapped. But that means a PROMOTER must step up and present a proposal. What promoter is willing to risk backing Portland and Mexico City right now? The ICS is not going to make the same mistakes CART and ChampCar did with self promotion.
RE: Communications, how about something concrete. This nebulous "I want more communications with the CCWS fans" concept, does not tell us what it is you expect. What specifically do you want them to do? Do you want a personal phone call from the ICS front office, a letter in your mail box? How do you propose this communications be accomplished?
I think TG's goals are no different than they ever were. He wants to preserve his own fifedom. Period. I didn't like it then. I don't like it now. But it is the only game in town.
Gary
Wow! there is a lot to your post. let's go back to the begining. From the July 8, 1994 press release.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDS
George noted that several tracks have signed letters of intent to become charter members of the 1996 series, and several more are expected in upcoming weeks. "We are more concerned about he quality of the race promoters for 1996 than we are in quantity," said George. He noted that while the new league is interested in the majority of its events being held on oval tracks, road course will be on the 1996 schedule.
Absent from the news release was anything about american drivers, or stepping stone from USAC to Indy. I will continue to look, but I don't recall ever seeing a statement from TG saying that was his goal. I do recall reading TG's responses to questions about those issues being addressed through the creation of the league. There is a difference between stating your goals and saying that those issues will be favorably affected.
TG hired Terry Angstadt to be president of the commercial division and he tasked him to produce a schedule which meets the goals of the corporation.
You won't find anyone more intensly interested in the success of the Indianpolis 500. For that to occur, the IRL must also succeed.
Addressing your scorecard specifically:
Check a credible souce for your attendance. Remember, the infield is not openned for the brickyard. There are 20K to 50K more people at the Indianapolis 500 each year. Regardless of those numbers, you are comparing apples and oranges because the race to which you are referring is not an open wheel race. The Indianapolis is still the premier open wheel race in the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDS
I've long ago sworn off debating ratings, I'll leave that to people understand them. As far as providing the teams that participate in the Indianapolis 500 with a schedule of races which owners can use to justify the expense of building/buying a car for Indianapolis as well as provide more exposure for the teams' sponsor(s) he has succeeded.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDS
I don't believe you will find many credible sources who would say the IRL has not maintained costs at a reasonable level so more teams can participate. I think you give the current teams too little credit when it comes to depth. There have been eight different winners this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDS
Is everything perfect? Far from it. Is AOWR heading in the right direction. One year is too short a period to claim as a trend, but there is positive momentum.