Rumored 2009 IC Schedule

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Originally Posted by indycool

Atlanta is a major market. Atlanta is also a lousy sports town. What good does it do to go there and draw flies?

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The idea that Atlanta isn't a good sports town is just BS. I've lived here all my life, off and on, and we support teams and events, they just have to be good. This town supports winners. You can't just be the Hawks and play boring, sub .500 basketball and expect people to show up like they would in Oklahoma or Iowa where there is nothing else to do.

As for our events not drawing flies: The Le Petit Le Mans is an established success; Georgia Tech and UGA sell out every football game and Tech has a strong basketball following; The Atlanta Thrashers have higher than average attendance, except for last year; Before the face of the Falcons went to jail they were sold out for every home game; the Braves don't have attendance problems; even the NASCAR races draw more fans than 95 percent on of the ovals on the IRL schedule.

I know Atlanta would turn out for the right event if packaged well and in a central location. A street race around Centennial Park area would succeed if held at the right time of year, probably in early April or September, and marketed in the right way.

Every try by Indy cars at Atlanta, from USAC in the '60s to CART to IRL has been a colossal failure.

The Braves made the playoffs many straight years and couldn't sell out a playoff game.

The Falcons, with good teams, couldn't sell out a playoff game.

There're two race tracks in Atlanta -- granted, one is near Jonesville and one near Braselton -- and you're suggesting a street race is the answer there. Baloney. The Petit is the only new racing event to last there in 40-50 years and it doesn't draw NASCAR numbers.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Every try by Indy cars at Atlanta, from USAC in the '60s to CART to IRL has been a colossal failure.

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Hockey failed in Atlanta in the in 1970s, so I guess that means professional Hockey could never work in Atlanta.

I love people who don't live here telling us what Atlanta isn't based on what happened 30 to 40 years ago. In the 1960s Atlanta did not have an affluent metro area with 3 million people, I think it was pretty close to the size of say Birmingham today. Basing a decision on data that is nearly 50 years old is just moronic.

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Originally Posted by indycool

The Braves made the playoffs many straight years and couldn't sell out a playoff game.

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Maybe they didn't sell out every game, but they sold out most of them. I'm sorry we're not St. Louis where we actually have 10 or 20 forms of entertainment to choose from on a Wednesday night.

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Originally Posted by indycool

The Falcons, with good teams, couldn't sell out a playoff game.

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Uh, keep trying. In 2004 the Divisional playoff game sold out in 11 minutes, and that was the last time Atlanta hosted a playoff game.

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Originally Posted by indycool

The Petit is the only new racing event to last there in 40-50 years and it doesn't draw NASCAR numbers.

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Number's and demographics are two entirely different thing. The Petit has great demographics among males with disposable income, much better numbers than average NASCAR or IRL races in the South, which gives advertisers a better value for their money.

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Originally Posted by indycool

There're two race tracks in Atlanta -- granted, one is near Jonesville and one near Braselton -- and you're suggesting a street race is the answer there. Baloney.

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Uh, Jonesville is a flyspeck of a town near the Alabama border. You probably meant Jonesburo, which btw isn't even in the same county as AMS. Clearly you're an expert on Atlanta and totally qualified to make decisions about what the city can an cannot support.

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Originally Posted by MDS

Hockey failed in Atlanta in the in 1970s

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Actually the Flames were pretty successful in Atlanta. Unfortunately they got bought by someone from Calgary and got moved.

MDS:
1. USAC in the '60s is 50 years old. CART in the '80s is not. IRL in the '90s is not.
2. PLAYOFF games, but 10-20 forms of entertainment are more important there.
3. Okay, you got me.
4. Difference between a niche and the masses.
5. Yes, I meant Jonesboro. Without looking it up on the map, you go southeast out of the airport a few miles and it's on the right side of the road.

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Originally Posted by indycool

2. PLAYOFF games, but 10-20 forms of entertainment are more important there.

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The key to OWR's success in Atlanta is to tie itself to a number forms of entertainment. If you offer racing on city streets with free live entertainment near bars and restaurants, allow for massive corporate tie-ins with exclusive VIP areas for the rich people to be seen at, work in the hip hop community and you will succeed in Atlanta, in the spring or fall.

Take the road show to AMS and you'll draw maybe 10,000 if the wether is good. Go to Road Atlanta and you'll be holding a funeral four days later.

But then again, clearly you've flown into Atlanta a couple of times and clearly know the city better than I do. I've only lived here off my entire life, how could I possibly know my city better than an occassional tourist.

*I realize this is off topic, but I'm going to allow some know-it-all tourist to define my hometown.

If you think that would be successful, why don't you put up the money and do it?

No, I haven't lived in Atlanta. I've only come there for events. My impression of it as a lousy sports town has to do with sports only. There are many things I like about the city itself.

the real scheduling question i have is.....and yes i'm posing it directly t you IC....but anyone feel free to chime in


How will/is TG going to make sure that the ICS doesn't fall victim to the same scheduleing problems as CART/CC and become a predomantly street coarse series...

now the easy answer is he just wont... well lets be honest....theres two factors at play here

1. the current ICS is closer to the old CART than 'the vision'

2. when an oval becomes no longer viable...homestead for example.... city goverments semm ready willing and able to pony up cash to get a race....

so how is TG and the IRL going to keep the IRL from becomeing 15 rc/sc v 5 ovals as the schedule progresses over the next 2 to 5 years

Well, Ken, time will tell, but I'll try:

1. TG is committed to ovalcentricity and the draws at most of the ovals have been adequate and/or growing and/or stable. No, Homestead ain't. The others are. And other ovals are waiting in the wings per SMI's statements. So, I don't believe that's going to come anytime soon.

2. After the Denvers and San Joses and Ansans and Zhuhais and Vegases and the cancellation at Phoenix, I doubt that many cities are jumping at the chance to have a street race. I doubt that many promoters are around that will take the chance on a street race without the right deal and sponsors and that's a pretty hard sell.

3. Pook, who mushroomed street racing in his career at Dover and CART, ain't a factor. KK, who tub-thumped it further, doesn't now. And I disagree that cities are clamaoring for races.

4. Just IMO, but TG seems to have a preference for real race tracks as opposed to street races.

5. It is slowly and grudgingly coming out that these street races don't draw what people were told they were drawing and tracks were only building 20-25,000 seats max and a number of them had few GA viewing areas. Well, if you're in Iowa and fill 25,000 permanent seats without the expense of track construction, that isn't any different than what was being drawn at street races with the added expenses involved.

Places like Road America and Watkins Glen have to rely on The great track, History and being a regional attraction. They have to make the event a destination type thing, rather than rely on the ADD type crowds at the street events that rely on bars, posh hotels and convenience. They just are totally different type events. When I attended the F1 races at the Glen, We had a small trailer and camped of course. They always had a concert, movies on Friday and saturday night and the occasional bus burning to keep people occupied in addition to the track action. It's getting harder and harder to find a good crowd of people even comfortable enough BEING in the outdoors, let alone having the equipment to survivie for three days. Sad, Sad change in our society IMHO. Now Camping means a 35 foot trailer with pop outs and king sized beds, generators, satellite TV and a galley rivalling the average person's home kitchens, and an 8 mile per gallon tow vehicle. That's a hard sell against even a $300 a night hotel room ten minutes away from a track.