The Ferrari thread !

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

I'd say that if the numbers place Ryan Giggs and Phil Neal as the two greatest players in English football history, it proves that the numbers can't be totally relied upon.

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Nobody has achieved more, and that is the only definition of greatness worth considering.

When being a jolly-decent-fellow-what-old-chap has any relevance other than in the minds of Nigel Roebucks love-childs, then any other reference of greatness will have significance.

Until it does, and anytime you wish to visit the F1 Paddock you will find immediately that any such a thought is utter bilge and codswallop, then any other feeble interpretation is born solely from envy and petty-minded isolationist idiocy perpetuated by the great unweashed brain-deads who claim to follow F1 but evidently do not understand even the most basic principle of the sport, which, for those hard-of-understanding, is winning is everything.

The notion that it is the taking part that counts is ridiculous and maintained by losers.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Baggy, I'm not living in a world with enemies. And I can learn to like people whom prove to be worth it.

I didn't like MS before 1996, but his dedication won me over.
I didn't like Alonso but his season with McLaren changed a lot as he proved that he can be mature enough to do his job in a hostile environement.
I didn't like Hamilton until half way through 2009, but he proved that he is a very good driver and I respect him for that.

And the list is long.

I like Ferrari even though I despise LdM, simply because LdM is not Ferrari, not the Ferrari I learned to appreciate.

Living in a world of black and white is tiresome and I'm not interested in it. :)

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A fine post Ioan and one I agree with....while I always thought both Alonso and Hamilton were very talented I couldn't 'like' either of them....for me that chnaged also in the last few years.

When you see two guys driving the wheels off a poor car and getting results they really have no right to you cannot help but applaud that. I canno wait for 2010 season.

Luca is a funny one...sometimes appears humble and almost in awe of Ferrari and what it means to people but then turning around and saying something that makes me wonder of he even knows F1.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Nobody has achieved more, and that is the only definition of greatness worth considering.

When being a jolly-decent-fellow-what-old-chap has any relevance other than in the minds of Nigel Roebucks love-childs, then any other reference of greatness will have significance.

Until it does, and anytime you wish to visit the F1 Paddock you will find immediately that any such a thought is utter bilge and codswallop, then any other feeble interpretation is born solely from envy and petty-minded isolationist idiocy perpetuated by the great unweashed brain-deads who claim to follow F1 but evidently do not understand even the most basic principle of the sport, which, for those hard-of-understanding, is winning is everything.

The notion that it is the taking part that counts is ridiculous and maintained by losers.

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I'd put Senna & Prost ahead of Schumacher. I wouldn't describe either of them as losers, nor particularly nice jolly old fellas.

You need to learn that your opinion is just that, an opinion. You can support it with stats, but stats aren't everything.

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

You need to learn that your opinion is just that, an opinion. You can support it with stats, but stats aren't everything.

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And you need to learn that winning is everything.

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Originally Posted by henners88

PS How does Sterling make it onto a greats list when he never won a WDC? I consider him a great but this would be disputed under the stats rule.

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Almost everyone in the sport considers Stirling Moss a great, many even believe he is the greatest ever.

I doubt Tamburello would agree.

Of course, if it is all about statistics, one wonders why we bother to watch, when surely a quick perusal of the results will tell us all we need to know.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Baggy, I'm not living in a world with enemies. And I can learn to like people whom prove to be worth it.

I didn't like MS before 1996, but his dedication won me over.
I didn't like Alonso but his season with McLaren changed a lot as he proved that he can be mature enough to do his job in a hostile environement.
I didn't like Hamilton until half way through 2009, but he proved that he is a very good driver and I respect him for that.

And the list is long.

I like Ferrari even though I despise LdM, simply because LdM is not Ferrari, not the Ferrari I learned to appreciate.

Living in a world of black and white is tiresome and I'm not interested in it. :)

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OK , so , you despise Luca , and love Ferrari .

At this point , would it be fair to say that whether Ferrari wins or not , is almost of no consequence , given that a Ferrari loss is a Luca loss , and a Ferrari win is a Ferrari win ?
In a sense , is this a win-win scenario ?

I do appreciate that a driver can redeem themselves in your eyes , but , isn't saying "I didn't like ... ,but" rather "black and white?

What about Kimi ? He brought glory to the marque one year .
But , he was seen as slack by Luca , and by most Tifosi , and continues to drag the coffers , even though gone .
Could this simply be the Luca effect again , with Kimi as unwilling to respect his employer as the Tifosi ?

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

Of course, if it is all about statistics, one wonders why we bother to watch, when surely a quick perusal of the results will tell us all we need to know.

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When the ever so passionate and emotional tifosi have nothing but 'cold numbers' to support their hero, it speaks volumes about that hero's faults.

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

Almost everyone in the sport considers Stirling Moss a great, many even believe he is the greatest ever.

I doubt Tamburello would agree.

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You got one thing right.

Moss was never a champion. Any claim that he was the greatest fails on that.

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

Of course, if it is all about statistics, one wonders why we bother to watch, when surely a quick perusal of the results will tell us all we need to know.

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It is not statistics, it is results. Cold, hard results. Unambigious,

Those in denial claim they are statistics.

Those who understand the purpose of the competition appreciate that they are results.

those with the results can be considered as having the greatest results, doesn't mean that everyone will share the OPINION (a word missing from a few preceding posts) that they are the greatest.

its hard to argue that MS is not the greatest, especially if you only look at results (which is it Tamb and Ioan, facts and results or opinion, both of you claim opinion in your signatures), but there is more to the competition than the final results. its the manner in which they are acheived that goes so far to form peoples opinion, which, i believe, people are perfectly entitled to, according to signature law round here.

i'd agree he's probably the greatest of his era, and that ferrari were probably the greatest team in that era, based on results, but i can't compare to previous generations without introducing opinion and favouritism, whislt if i do the same for MS era he'd also be in a fight with a few others.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Those who understand the purpose of the competition appreciate that they are results.

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The purpose of the competition is to win, agreed, but the driver who wins the most is not necessarily the best driver, for he is just one member of the team, (albeit an important one).

Only a lunatic would describe, say, Gary Neville, as a better footballer than Steven Gerrard, but Gary's the one with the medals because he has been part of a successful team.

Ultimately, I'm prepared to accept your opinion that Michael Schumacher is the greatest but I'm not prepared to accept that it is fact.