The Ferrari thread !

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Originally Posted by ioan

Everything is open to interpretation, especially around here. That's why I go by the numbers, no interpretation, no subjectivity, cold numbers.

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Fangio won 24 times from 51 starts which is a winning percentage of 47.06% and therefore better than Schumacher and might have been better still if it weren't for the coldest numbers in history.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Thats great but it is OK for me to have my opinion isn't it? That is why we're here or have I missed something? I'm not trying to be funny but people like to lay it on the line when they have a view, but shoot down and take the p!ss out of others when they express theirs.

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:up: well said i agree with this statement.

however, to much extent I agree with what Ioan says about going by numbers. However, this doesnt always tell the FULL story and sometimes you have to look further than figures to see a drivers brilliance or what have you.

IMO the top 4 drivers - Michael, Alain, Juan and Ayrton, are so good and great that it is impossible to say who is the best, but I have witnessed the majesty of Michael, so I say Michael. However, I am aware that this is only an opinion...

Michael who?
:arrows:
ok ok I'm gone :p :
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

p.s. I just realised: now Michael's back it's time to change the boo hoo sig I put up for ioan (:wave :) so many years ago :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ioan

No he isn't right. Luca is the one who badly treated the ones who made Ferrari into the powerhouse we all witnessed, so he has no right to call others traitors.

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This is complicated , this being a Tifoso .

Do I have this right ?
Ferrari winning is best , even though Luca wins and Michael loses .
Ferrari losing to Michael , even though driving for Mercedes , is good , too , because Michael brought so much glory to Ferrari , and he is racing against Luca , who has done so much damage to Ferrari .

Regardless of what Luca says , is Michael not now the enemy , worthy somewhat of some derision , for taking the secrets of the winning Scuderia to a rival ?

After all , should we expect him to feel compassion for the red team in the race , or should we expect the same clinical lack thereof in his typical quest for the win ?




In no way am I trying to be argumentative .
In fact , I am truly interested in how you Tifosi read all this .
It's going to be wierd for you all .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

This is complicated , this being a Tifoso .

Do I have this right ?
Ferrari winning is best , even though Luca wins and Michael loses .
Ferrari losing to Michael , even though driving for Mercedes , is good , too , because Michael brought so much glory to Ferrari , and he is racing against Luca , who has done so much damage to Ferrari .

Regardless of what Luca says , is Michael not now the enemy , worthy somewhat of some derision , for taking the secrets of the winning Scuderia to a rival ?

After all , should we expect him to feel compassion for the red team in the race , or should we expect the same clinical lack thereof in his typical quest for the win ?




In no way am I trying to be argumentative .
In fact , I am truly interested in how you Tifosi read all this .
It's going to be wierd for you all .

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Baggy, I'm not living in a world with enemies. And I can learn to like people whom prove to be worth it.

I didn't like MS before 1996, but his dedication won me over.
I didn't like Alonso but his season with McLaren changed a lot as he proved that he can be mature enough to do his job in a hostile environement.
I didn't like Hamilton until half way through 2009, but he proved that he is a very good driver and I respect him for that.

And the list is long.

I like Ferrari even though I despise LdM, simply because LdM is not Ferrari, not the Ferrari I learned to appreciate.

Living in a world of black and white is tiresome and I'm not interested in it. :)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Everything is open to interpretation, especially around here. That's why I go by the numbers, no interpretation, no subjectivity, cold numbers.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Living in a world of black and white is tiresome and I'm not interested in it. :)

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Er, which is it? :confused:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Everything is open to interpretation, especially around here. That's why I go by the numbers, no interpretation, no subjectivity, cold numbers.

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No offence but you go by the numbers when it suits you. When we were arguing about Kimi/Massa a while back you just stated that Massa beat Kimi without looking into the matter, and when it was proven that they scored about the same number of points per finished race in their three years together at Ferrari, you just moved on and ignored the whole thing. But anyway we all do that but at least some of us don't pretend to be objective.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Two categories that are meaningless, much like your post.

He has won more than anybody else, and the object of the game is to win.

When the object of the sport is anything other than winning, you may have a point.

Until then, you don't.

That is a fact.

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I'd say that if the numbers place Ryan Giggs and Phil Neal as the two greatest players in English football history, it proves that the numbers can't be totally relied upon.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Two categories that are meaningless, much like your post.

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I wouldn't consider longevity to be meaningless. Rubens would not be in F1 now if his contribution to the teams he has raced for was not valued. Equally I wouldn't argue for a second that Rubens was the greatest F1 driver that has ever lived.

Greatness is not something that can be defined entirely by facts. The argument in favour of a driver being considered one of the "greats" can certainly be supported by numbers and MS certainly has those in his favour, but given that "greatness" is largely a matter of opinion then the numbers are just one of many factors.

There are sportsmen & women who are generally recognised to be the greatest in their field, but even among those greats there is room for debate and discussion.