Rally Wrc Mexicooo 2016

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Visst! But are they slow? Are you slow winning stages in WRC events? I´m reacting on those who criticices Mads being slow, nothing else. Tenths, seconds, what they depends on? - well - many factors I believe.
Btw, how things where one or few years ago or even 6 months, doesn´t give much references of current situation technicalwise.

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Yeah but you know me..I'm really a cross-idiot in the deepest part of what passes for brains...We don't obesses to the same degree as car guys about technical "end-of-the-world" larvigheter..

Example


Se how Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvists old 1997 spec Whirled Rally Car Escort Cosworth just a few years ago makes times good for 4th --5th 6th if he was in WRC Sweden insted of the SM rally behind..
Ancient car......17 years behind
Ancient guy!

Mere seconds behind..

So many tiny factors I say the biggest is between the ears.. Drive, krut i magen, råg i ryggen because the technical spec is so strictly controlled in so many ways regarding the engines.. so i discount the engines...there's a whole lot of other things after the motor

And there's the internat PUSH..
Don't want to guess too much but those guttar have pretty nice life if they never lift a finger to get in a car again, right? It's in a way just fun for them..another couple of fractions of second is not going to change their lives.. Push internally is the hardest factor to weigh...
this was pretty clear in my sport when even though it is multiple factors more pysically demanding, routinely you see guys who don't LOOK all full of muscles beat guys who were...there was something pushing harder inside their head and that made the decisive difference...

Understand what you mean. Still it´s competition on highest rally level in WRC. And that means differences measured in tenths or few seconds means either driver or cars play a role.
The thing some guys has a golden spoon in their mouths doesn´t mean they compete cruising.
Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?
Mats Jonsson hasn´t had any competiton in SRC for years. So comparing isn´t fair.

Så där John. Nu fick du nåt att bita i... ;)

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Se how Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvists old 1997 spec Whirled Rally Car Escort Cosworth just a few years ago makes times good for 4th --5th 6th if he was in WRC Sweden insted of the SM rally behind..
Ancient car......17 years behind
Ancient guy!

Mere seconds behind..

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This tale is quite often retold on here, I'd love to know more about it. No disrespect to Mats but he alone doesn't account for this difference, does anyone know was the restrictor size the same for both? And what about tyres?

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Understand what you mean. Still it´s competition on highest rally level in WRC. And that means differences measured in tenths or few seconds means either driver or cars play a role.
The thing some guys has a golden spoon in their mouths doesn´t mean they compete cruising.
Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?
Mats Jonsson hasn´t had any competiton in SRC for years. So comparing isn´t fair.

Så där John. Nu fick du nåt att bita i... ;)

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Vänta nu..

First yeah I agree, they aren't ''just cruising''... It would be silly to suggest that..who did?

But but but..
Re Mats Jonsson and the WRC ex Blomqvist Escort rapport from over the week end:

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Another snow victory for Rådström

Rally Vännäs - the last winter rally for this year in the Swedish Rally Championship - was held this weekend in Vännäs, native village for Thomas Rådström, former WRC-driver in the Citroën team. He was co-driven by Denis Giraudet and they had no problems to win this round of the championship in their Olsbergs Toyota Corolla WRC.
- In spite of a repeating malfunction of the engine, causing o loss of about 50 hps many times, we had no real problems to take the win, Thomas Rådström said at the ramp.


Behind Rådström there was a tough fight between Mats Jonsson, Ford Escort WRC, and Mats Thorszelius, Toyota Corolla WRC. Thorszelius was the luckiest of the two and finished second, 51,4 seconds behind Rådström, but only 2 seconds ahead of Jonsson at the third place.

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We speaking of the same Jonsson? Cause THAT is the one I'm referring to..He must be 60 (just checked 59)
Gammalt är bäst


Thorzelius grabben, isn't he almost neighbor to you? almost? Just a couple of mil ditåt ----->:D

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Originally Posted by Nornbugger

This tale is quite often retold on here, I'd love to know more about it. No disrespect to Mats but he alone doesn't account for this difference, does anyone know was the restrictor size the same for both? And what about tyres?

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Ok hold on, I need tea and a ciggie, Iäll dig it up and get right back.
It was the same year that there were a couple of National 2wd Golf and a Volvo 940 beating Ken Blocks stage times---in the latest spec "best car money can buy" (because any better and they give YOU money!) Ford Focus.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

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i dont understand all of what you wrote, but i agree with the part about citroen and loeb's one off return....and to some extent now reflected via meeke

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Originally Posted by gorganl2000

i dont understand all of what you wrote, but i agree with the part about citroen and loeb's one off return....and to some extent now reflected via meeke

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Yeah I have to get up at 0530 to drive wifey dear to the train and with only 1/2 cup of tea and 1/2 cigarette my poor old brain isn't firing on all cylinders...Per is Swedish and that was my language in motorsports so Iäm writing to him so it's all his fault..At least we speak same regional dialect so at least he understands...

You should see what happens if I write in Österbotten Finland-svensk, then even he have problems

I think this might be the problem area:

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And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

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Norsk guttar= "norwegian guys" and gnista = spark (iskra? In Russian) and flinta= flint and 'inte vet jag' is "I don't know"..

And damn whole last line = "and this is shown in that they are fractions of a second behind."

Basically agreeing that the Norski guys are fast but slightly disagreeing that the Fords are "not fast enough".

Of course Pelle is an old Opel rally man and I drove Saab with the mighty V4 which is Ford so we genetically have to disagree (even if I built some really excellent Opels for friends)

Maybe if I ask him to find me Opel 2,2 crank he will forgive me being Ford/Saab guy.:eek:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Ok hold on, I need tea and a ciggie, Iäll dig it up and get right back.
It was the same year that there were a couple of National 2wd Golf and a Volvo 940 beating Ken Blocks stage times---in the latest spec "best car money can buy" (because any better and they give YOU money!) Ford Focus.

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Maybe here for Block SS times
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_i...ly-Sweden-2011

Maybe here for Mats
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/...=Trimmat%204WD

SS8/9/10/11

2wd National "Grupp H"
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/...=Trimmat%202WD


More later.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Yeah I have to get up at 0530 to drive wifey dear to the train and with only 1/2 cup of tea and 1/2 cigarette my poor old brain isn't firing on all cylinders...Per is Swedish and that was my language in motorsports so Iäm writing to him so it's all his fault..At least we speak same regional dialect so at least he understands...

You should see what happens if I write in Österbotten Finland-svensk, then even he have problems

I think this might be the problem area:


Norsk guttar= "norwegian guys" and gnista = spark (iskra? In Russian) and flinta= flint and 'inte vet jag' is "I don't know"..

And damn whole last line = "and this is shown in that they are fractions of a second behind."

Basically agreeing that the Norski guys are fast but slightly disagreeing that the Fords are "not fast enough".

Of course Pelle is an old Opel rally man and I drove Saab with the mighty V4 which is Ford so we genetically have to disagree (even if I built some really excellent Opels for friends)

Maybe if I ask him to find me Opel 2,2 crank he will forgive me being Ford/Saab guy.:eek:

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I´m a truly Ford fan as well (in rallying that is) else there is a tale "Aldrig en Ford på min gård" and that rule concerns my private cars. Opel as you say is a favourite having had maybe 20 different models since 1972, like Kadett Sprint, Asconas (B) maybe 7-8, Omegas, Rekord and now for the time being one Astra and one Corsa (and BMW also). Back in 1976 I put together a Std B V4 engine (silvermotorn with Solex doubleport carb original) at my brother which after was raced maybe 20 rallies with no problem...

So far where I stand. My judgement of Fiesta is oc subjective, but some drivers seems to agree as well.

Btw Rådström och Mats Jonsson wasn´t that maybe ten years ago...? Not sure myself anymore.

Per, I struggle to read the whole argument, I admit, but I'm quite sure that differences between drivers on WRC level are reasonably bigger than differences between cars. You know You have the same set of rules, same tools, same options to design, compute, verify and test everything on the car but the driver is just an accidental work of nature with some additional fine tuning.