2012 Presidential Race

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Originally Posted by D-Type

Some people appear to be overlooking indirect taxation - sales tax, VAT, duty on tobacco and alcohol, import duties etc. No matter what your income, when you spend it you pay tax at the same rate.

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Relative to incomes though, someone on £10,000 pays a higher proportion than someone on £100,000 by virtue of the fact that they spend a greater proportion of their income. Even if people spend more as their incomes go up, they're more likely to save that next pound.
I can show you the mechanics if you like but essentially all consumption based taxes are regressive in nature.

You can also complicate the issue even further in the United States because there's taxes at Federal and State level and in some instances county and city level just to make things even more complex.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

You can also complicate the issue even further in the United States because there's taxes at Federal and State level and in some instances county and city level just to make things even more complex.

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A lot of non Americans don't know how much we pay in extra taxes over and above the US and state income taxes. There are county and city income taxes; state and county/city sales taxes; county/city and state property taxes; excise taxes on telephones, tires, booze, cable, etc.; federal and state inheritance taxes; environmental taxes; social security and medicare tax and a myriad of others.

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Originally Posted by Starter

A lot of non Americans don't know how much we pay in extra taxes over and above the US and state income taxes. There are county and city income taxes; state and county/city sales taxes; county/city and state property taxes; excise taxes on telephones, tires, booze, cable, etc.; federal and state inheritance taxes; environmental taxes; social security and medicare tax and a myriad of others.

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I pay around 50% in total taxes. I even pay a tax for being able to post here.

And back to the presidential Race:

Pretty nifty smack-down that President Obama gave to Governor Romney.

Job well done mister president, well done.

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

And back to the presidential Race:

Pretty nifty smack-down that President Obama gave to Governor Romney.

Job well done mister president, well done.

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Willard was sputtering and stuttering and whining and interrupting again.

Now last time all the "lib'ral" media said Willard was "forceful' or farceful or something, But I thought he looked and sounded like a freshmen frat-boy... Then when Biden did his masterful job with that guy, it was "Biden was aggressive", wonder if Obama will get accused of aggressiveness...

Both broke the Memorandum of Understanding the both signed on the rules of the debates to "not directly address the other" with Romney once again thinking rules are for other people....

Saw a good comment:

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(MSS): There's something about Romney's face-to-face, heartwarming insincerity that seems incredibly more insincere than his "standing in front of a huge crowd talking in general" insincerity. He's just bringing whole levels of artificial to an already artificial exchange. Like a hooker wearing earbuds and a big yellow rubber kitchen glove while giving a handjob.

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Huh? once again, Romney showed the flaws and garbage perpetrated by the Obama admin. I noticed that Obama dealt very little with specifics and even tried to use some very questionable math too. There was some Bush blaming although we know the true problems came about when the Dems took over.

Bottom line is that Obama doesn't want to cut spending and Romney does. Over-spending is what got us in this mess in the first place. Fraud, waster and corruption will be the most memorable things from the one time Obama admin. Go Romney!!

Can someone please clarify how things really work in the States? Constitutionally and in practice.

Is it the President, the Senate or the House of Representatives who determines policy?
I know that constitutionally executive power, ie carrying out of policy, is the function of the President. But that is not the same as formulating the policy.
And where does the Legislature fit in?

President spoke! That alone is improvement from last time. Did not say much ,and no future plans, but did speak with force. Most of the night trash talking man with a plan. Romney did not give in, and fired back, at times looked like two kids playing tag game. I like debates and they should be open forum and more of them. Choice is between more debt ,more of the same tax ,print more money and spend or new direction where growth and prosperity is focused on job creators and business friendly environment.

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

President spoke! That alone is improvement from last time. Did not say much ,and no future plans, but did speak with force. Most of the night trash talking man with a plan. Romney did not give in, and fired back, at times looked like two kids playing tag game. I like debates and they should be open forum and more of them. Choice is between more debt ,more of the same tax ,print more money and spend or new direction where growth and prosperity is focused on job creators and business friendly environment.

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Well said, we know the past 4 years have been a colossal failure and we simply cannot sustain it. I didn't hear many specifics from Obama aside from lies about oil & coal and some very bad math about Romney's plan. The key point that lost the debate for Obama was his complete and utter falsehoods about Benghazi and the major screw ups there. Not to mention the countless times he blamed others. If this is the best the President has, then Mitt is a shoe-in.

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Originally Posted by D-Type

Can someone please clarify how things really work in the States? Constitutionally and in practice.

Is it the President, the Senate or the House of Representatives who determines policy?
I know that constitutionally executive power, ie carrying out of policy, is the function of the President. But that is not the same as formulating the policy.
And where does the Legislature fit in?

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Well, if you watch the debates, you would think the President is responsible for everything.

How it works in real life is something different.
1) Proposed policy and legislation can be introduced by either the President or in either house of Congress (House of Representatives and Senate).
2) The proposed legislation is (usually) referred to the appropriate Congressional committee for discussion. That legislation can either be killed in committee, modified or can be sent to the floor for discussion and a vote. Usually, when a piece of legislation goes through Congress, there are similar, but not necessarily the same, companion bills in the other house.
3) Once a piece of legislation passes either house, it goes to the other house for consideration or, in the case of companion bills, it goes to a reconciliation committee to iron out the differences between the two bills. Assuming it passes this step, and both House & Senate approve, it goes to the President for signature.
4) Here, the President has three options. Sign it into law; veto it; or not sign it.
A) Sign it and it's law. The President and his cabinet now have some discretion as to how the law is applied and enforced.
B) Veto it. The bill then goes back to Congress for modification and/ or vote. Congress can either modify the bill and send it back or over ride the veto with a 2/3 majority vote. If overridden, it becomes law.
C) Not sign it. This gives the Pres political cover by saying "Hey, I didn't sign it".
5) As noted in "A", the law and the reality of how it's applied can differ. There is also the question of, in the enabling legislation, did Congress include funding to administer the law. This is another way politicians can claim the high ground of saying "I voted for it" but know it will never be applied.
6) The Supreme Court can then review the law and uphold or over turn it. But only if someone files suit and the case is elevated through the court system to that level. Some laws are challenged and over turned in lower courts and never brought before the Supreme Court.

I'm sure someone will jump on that description above and say I've got something wrong, but that's the short version of how it works.