Team orders at Ferrari

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Originally Posted by wedge

You cover your bases. Who would've known Massa would hold off Vettel? (Perhaps Vettel settled for third or can Vettel overtake when it counts most?)
:D
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Or maybe Smedley forgot to tell Massa that Vettel was behind him and Vettel was faster. :p : :D :rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Load of BS.
The money is paid by FOM in function of the constructors championship standings, most teams only care about the WCC.

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Thanks for the kind words... always a gentleman

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Originally Posted by wedge

Were Ferrari happy winning the WCC in 1999 as consolation prize? Not as happy at winning the WDC, that's for damn sure.

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I'm pretty sure Ioan was delighted at the end of that season :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It is important to remember that the rules which apply here are those implemented and policed by the FIA. The FIA stated that a breach of Article 39.1, which bans team orders, and 151c, which relates to bringing the sport into disrepute, had been committed and Ferrari were fined $100,000 and referred to the WMSC.

Ferrari are not appealing that outcome.

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Yes they are, but not to the stewards.

"As for the Stewards' decision, given after the race, in the interests of the sport, we have decided not to go through a procedure of appealing against it, confident that the World Council will know how to evaluate the overall facts correctly,"

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsp...ory/24408.html

You do not have to appeal to the stewards when the matter is referred to the WMSC, as the WMSC has the power to overturn a stewards decision.

They are going to the WMSC confident that the decision will be overturned, so no need to appeal at a lower level.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

You do not have to appeal to the stewards when the matter is referred to the WMSC, as the WMSC has the power to overturn a stewards decision.

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It may have the power to do so but it's been suggested that that the hearing is "is to consider whether Ferrari should face further sanctions for the team orders controversy."

Despite Ferrari's confidence, the wording of the FIA statement ("Fine $100,000. The case will also be referred to the FIA World Motorsport Council for further consideration.") suggests to me that anything coming out of the WMSC hearing will be in addition to the fine.

But, time will tell.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Yes they are, but not to the stewards.

"As for the Stewards' decision, given after the race, in the interests of the sport, we have decided not to go through a procedure of appealing against it, confident that the World Council will know how to evaluate the overall facts correctly,"

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsp...ory/24408.html

You do not have to appeal to the stewards when the matter is referred to the WMSC, as the WMSC has the power to overturn a stewards decision.

They are going to the WMSC confident that the decision will be overturned, so no need to appeal at a lower level.

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I'm sorry but playing Devils Advocate, where do Ferrari mention that they expect the decision to be overturned?

They have said they are confident that the WMSC will be able to evaluate the facts correctly but let us not forget that the Stewards referred this case, not Ferrari.

I think it very unlikely the WMSC will overturn the decision and doubt Ferrari even offer a defense. However, they may find that no further punishment is needed which would confirm the original judgement.

At least a line can be drawn under the issue and Ferrari fans accept the judgement that Ferrari themselves are confident in.

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Originally Posted by henners88

If you are naive enough to think that team orders no longer exist and this incident with Ferrari is a simple misunderstanding, then you are welcome to your view, but please don't suggest my attitude is disgusting, because it insults peoples intelligence.

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Please do not insult peoples intelligence yourself by claiming things you cannot prove.

Please do not insult peoples intelligence by claiming that the Ferrari President made an admission of using Team Orders when he did not.

It is not right and it is not true that he did.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Can you prove it was not team orders? The flipside of this arguement is just as valid.

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Nobody at Ferrari mentioned team orders. Trying to prove something that did not happen is ridiculous.

Alonso was quicker and Massa should have moved over without a song and dance - well before "the incident". The Ferrari team was concerned that there would be a collision and this HAS occurred between these drivers this season.

Those like yourself that object to rough defense tactics such as used by Schumi now think that Alonso and Massa ought to have fought it out? This is a contradiction.

Those who are against Schumi should be agreeable that when it is a team the slower driver in front must be a perfrct gentleman and allow the quicker driver through.

Why? Because based on the history, Silverstone being just one example from this season, the odds that Alonso and Massa would collide are pretty high.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Please do not insult peoples intelligence yourself by claiming things you cannot prove.

Please do not insult peoples intelligence by claiming that the Ferrari President made an admission of using Team Orders when he did not.

It is not right and it is not true that he did.

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This is not an Italian court. There were team orders, other teams have had those in the past and will have in the future.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Nowhere at Hockenheim did you hear a direct instruction given...

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That's true. Rob did not say "this is a team order, let Fernando through". You're quite correct.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

...Ergo, no team order.

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Article 39.1 does not define in what form a "team order" must be given to be in breach of the rules; all it says is "team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited." The stewards clearly interpreted the way the "information" was given to Felipe, and the resulting switch in positions between team-mates, as a team order.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Can you prove it was not team orders? The flipside of this arguement is just as valid.

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This so reminds me of Tony Hancok's "Twelve Angry Men" :laugh:

[youtube]E6MsXBGHolQ[/youtube]

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"Take the case of Doubting Thomas, who was sent to Coventry for looking through a keyhole at Lady Godiva. Can anybody prove he was looking at her? Can anybody prove it was he who shouted out: "get your hair cut"? Of course not, this is sheer supposition! Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain? Brave Hungarian peasant girl who forced King John to sign the pledge at Runnymede and close the boozers at half past ten! Is all this to be forgotten?"

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