It's the exit of Moullinet. Just two or three corners after start. One would not expect a driver like JML to crash so early in the sage. But ok, **** happens. The main thing is they are unhurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
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It's the exit of Moullinet. Just two or three corners after start. One would not expect a driver like JML to crash so early in the sage. But ok, **** happens. The main thing is they are unhurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
But that´s not an answer. History over security? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Organizer always have to take action to any problems that may appear. In advance. Now they didn´t. Just let everything go. As for 100 yrs ago...
That is not the level safety measures should be handled.
Rallyper, cool down now.
If we'd go for 100% safe and security we will be allowed to watch rally only via video.
Official English highlights from final day:
Part 1-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5TS5...em-uploademail
Part 2-
WRC 2013 Monte Carlo Day 4 - Part 2/2 - YouTube
Novikov at exactly same corner as Latvala
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwwdsc_monte-carlo-2013-novikov-crash_auto?start=41#.UPvt1B2EwYQ
Did happen, Novikov crashed at same place...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
At least he was a bit slower. I think Neuville would have crashed in the same way there, had he made it to the start of this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
road are cleaned exactly like in Lviv (my city)
another video from Latvala crash
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwweii_monte-carlo-2013-latvala-crash_auto?start=45#.UPvwIh2EwYQ
So after the night Turini was brought back in 2009 it was run 10x successfully and the 11th run was canceled and You act like it was the end of the world, eh? They canceled 6 stages last year in Portugal, every year there are canceled stages in Argentina. So what? Will we kick these rallies out of the calendar? It's part of the game and it has always been part of the game. It doesn't mater if it's usual terrible weather in Argentina or too few access roads in France, or people hidden in wineyards on dangerous places in Alsace or anything else. These are circumstances which make some events more difficult to organize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
What matters is that the iconic events and stages appeal to the public much more than uniform maybe non-problematic events of the modern WRC. You want to get rid of legendary stages like Col de Turini on which the history of rallying started. OK, on same safety basis we can immediately kick out Ouninpohja because it's dangerous as hell. We can kick out El Condor because there is always bad weather. We can kick out Whaanga Coast because somebody could fall into the sea. We can kick out panzerplatte because the hinkelsteins are dangerous. And in the end we will be sitting at home watching videos of Walter Röhl climbing up the Turini and crying about the good old days...
I´m perfectly under control. But I´m also kind of logical. If things are judged in a way (for example the route for RMC 2013) you´ll have to stick to that. If safety can´t be upheld, you do something different, not just letting things go and say to yourself: "we could of course stop the race in half or the two last stages" or just like that. That´s not logical and shouldn´t be a way to solve problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
That´s why I´m thinking of the way it ended up as a big shame which only gained one carmaker. You have decided to do RMC in any conditions choosing the route. Then stick to it and Bouffier might have won... Who knows?
No, you're not. But that's my impression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Let´s stick to the subject. Safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If these conditions are known to appear, then use proper equipments; for example tyres. You´re right about "this is the way they´ve doing it for yrs" and that´s why they´re using such out-of-date tyres. So proper tyres is what it is about. You know no one should ever dream of doing Rally Sweden with the tyres they use in RMC, would they. I suspect even FIA shouldn´t allow that. But in RMC it´s OK. You know where I´m getting?
Yes, Ouninpohja should be kicked out if they only had to use old tyres with patterns from annudazumal, that´s for sure.
Myabe I´m from another age than you...? (Following RMC since beginning of the 60´s)Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Rallyper, you are not logical! They have they cancelled the Turini last year? Of the years before that? No! So how on earth could they predict that it would happen now? The weather was just extremely bad this year... No one can change anything about that and no one could predict that when they made the itinerary months back!
Good luck in organising a rally for 100 years without having to cancel a single stage...
Funny...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
With the big number of fatal accidents last year some people on this forum said "tyres should provide less grip, the cornering speed is too high now".
The conditions are same for everyone, and so are the tyres... A stage should not be banned because it is too dangerous for the drivers, it is part of the sport, and something can happen everywhere... If you ban Turini for safety issues, you can ban practically each stage in Monte Carlo. Talking about Finland, Ouninpohja may be dangerous, but the other stages in Finland are almost just as fast and in every corner something can happen... And if they would drive it on worse tyres, the speed would be lower, so the risk of having a accident with serious injuries would be lower, no? ;)
Endless discussion with nothing to win, the risk is part of the sport, and if you want to take out all risks, you kill the sport...
They did cancel the stage. That's security over history. Cancelling the stage is valid and very effective security measure. And they probably had planned beforehand when to cancel as the cancellation came quite early. And little controversy is always part of the Monte Carlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
In my opinion we even didn't lose much of the race because everyone would have been driving basically as slow as possible.
So You are jumping to another subject pretending You spoke about this one from start? Why shall I play this game with You?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Do You know that narrow winter tyres are allowed in RMC? All 2WD cars use them. Why 4WD can't is a question but I doubt it's because of the organization. Why there are no proper rain asphalt tyres in WRC? Because FIA allows only one pattern for all asphalt tyres or 4WD cars. Remember how in Ireland drivers used snow tyres because they had no appropriate rain tyres and they were not allowed to cut those they had? Was it a mistake of the Irish? I guess the real reason is in FIA and in their sometimes strange decisions.
By the way You can't use Swedish studs with asphalt surface bellow ice and snow. Those tyres would be destroyed in just few kilometers plus there would be a lot of damage to the roads.
Most definitelly not, I don't like such things to happen to any driver. The clip just gave us view of what really happen, Latvala was very unlucky there, true the speed was high, there was slush exactly on the corner and that made the difference with other drivers who passed this place safely, but if he didn't hit that tree that heavily, probably the damage wouldn't be so bad, may be only few scratches...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
You saw what happenend to Novikov at that corner...not just scratches ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
That was for asphalt only I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Now I did, I didn't while writing it ;) Yes, Novikov's one can be considered more lucky, at least didn't crash that heavily and still drove couple of more kms :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
And yet again, your point is not valid at all. It's like sayin' that I have driven vehicles 50 years, hence I am better (faster) driver than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Yes, you have some experience, but to me your comments are at least stubborn and with no logic (well, twisted logic) to me.
Yes, it was a pity that stages were cancelled, but to say that only RMC was to blame is ridicilous as there were several and severe factors which caused this decision to happen.
And I find amusing that to some people always there has to be someone to blame. It's life, get over it now.
Yep, I will. Things could have been handled in a different way. They didn´t. We all know one carmaker won to that. The attending people on the two last stages, and not talking about you and me sitting at home, were disappointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Many aspects in same subject. You´re in the game then it´s only to play. The organizer knows the safety issues very well. But didn´t take care of it in many ways they could have done.
Now I´m leaving the subject and looking forward to Rally Sweden, among many regarded as the fastest rally of them all (with proper tyres) ;)
Wise decision my friend ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
It is OK for Swedish type tyres used here, unacceptable, but I still think this could be handled little better - more tyres with studs to be allowed when the conditions are as such, or may be even narrow tyres could be better. For just one purpose - safetyQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Hi All !
I don't often leave comments on the forum but follow all the experts regularly. At the beginning of the rally this forum had over 800 people following it. That's brilliant but also not good news for the WRC as it means that all those people couldn't find what they needed on the WRC site or any other official media.
To the Rally... S Loeb as brilliant as ever. S Ogier Good drive and with a new car and a regular drive. Then the rest Sordo very good too. makes you wonder how many rallies he would already won without team rules. Hirvonen, very disapointing, very slow but not supprising, JM Latvala, disapointing but service as usual. Then to the Ford boys. More proof that M Wilson chooses the drivers by the lack of money he has/the amount of money drivers or sponsors bring. Neuville, useless, Novikov OK but back to crashing, Ostberg, painfully slow and he's the N°1 driver! Hanninen, finally given his chance but very irregular. Peter Solberg must have been laughing all weekend and thanking Qatar for chucking him out. He is lucky not to be in such an amateur team. The Ford team used to joke about always picking him up with the brake down truck but it seems different drivers same result. Must be the team then.
Finally, great photos, videos, info from everyone on the site. Keep it up for WRC 2013, you're all great. Thanks.
On the bright side - WRC 2013 Monte Carlo Day 4 - Part 2/2 - YouTube
Bring it on Sweden now!
Just look spectators, very smart place for watching ... suicidalQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I don't know how the FIA works, but in the US, its not whether rally cars can clear the stage determining if a stage is cancelled. If ambulance and safety crews cannot access the stage with some level of ease to reach an injured crew or spectator, then the stage is cancelled.
I think that's just the problem. Loeb, Ogier and other drivers knew they had to back off in that kind of conditions. Latvala and Novikov realized it only three corners later. But on that time it was too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Are there other videos of that particular part of the stage? I would like to compare the speed of Loeb and Ogier to the speed of Latvala and Novikov in that corner.
Before everyone gets angry in here read the official decision.
http://www.rallyliveresults.com/acm/...SION%20No6.pdf
The two stages was cancelled due to a road block.
Safety issues isn't mention...
Just for the record the drivers behind Latvala were warned as his car was still on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Luijk
Novikov had hit exactly the same tree ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
JML crash - ouch !
That was a proper impact, much worse than Novi...
Looks like his luck has moved with him from Ford to VW. :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cz0GpUPWUg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Last year some people were saying that Ford's "nervous by default" chassis made him (and Solberg) leave the road so often, let's see if the Polo has the same factory defect. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Because it was a big one and nobody was hurt, because it's useful to see a mistake from outside the car because it helps to understand the accident and could prevent others under the same conditions, because I like to see that this sport is now more secure than ever (despite recent facts), ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Besides, I'd call bad luck when something happens once. Twice is a coincidence. When something happens to you three times is unlikely, very unlikely four times. However, it's the fifth or sixth time that JML has a problem here.