2008 Neste Oil Rally Finland - official thread

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Originally Posted by HaCo

Probably, but he'll be the closest to Loeb I think (maybe Sordo, mmmh) and eventually in front of him (although also very close), at least I hope so.

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Last year Duval drove an Xsara. I am not really sure the Ford Focus will hold up the current C4 on tarmac for him to be able to fight for first place. And I was sure that it was Citroen internal plan for him to beat Marcus. I don't think it will be the same tactic here with Mikko fighting for championship. We'll just have to see. 1st or second place is tall expectation if he gets no testing.

Then we get the Subaru guys who said the car perform exceptionally on tarmac, we'll see if they are serious. The car does look to be more stable, if not fast.

This forum is a bit silly. You guys have been arguing now about 5 pages if Loeb is faster than the guys in 80's or not. It just might be that you can spend million more pages and still without any final agreement or conclution. There's no way that you can know it or you can even compare it. Different eras, different drivers etc... Personally I couldn't care less.

At the moment Loeb is the fastest man in WRC and the victory in Jyväskylä proved this. It was a great battle to the end and it was great to follow it live once again. :) Congrats to Seb and Daniel for the victory.

And here's my favorite link from the weekend: If Garde wouldn't saved this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW3PJ...eature=related

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Originally Posted by MikeD

Silly you!

I didn't mention it in relation to NORF. I mentioned it as an example that most fans expect Loeb to win on tarmac events to come - and todays crap F1 race in Hungary was a fine example that sometimes things goes in the exact opposite way. One of the slowest guys won, and the fast ones lost out.

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Oh, this wasn't related to NORF? I must be in the wrong thread. Apparently the title says "2008 Neste Oil Rally Finland Official Thread". Sorry for the mistake. :D

You're still wrong about Kovy in Hungary. He's never been slow and won his maiden race.
Is there such a thing as an underachieving winner?
I'm not sure if you're familiar with racing. These type of results tend to occur.

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Originally Posted by Woodeye

You guys have been arguing now about 5 pages if Loeb is faster than the guys in 80's or not. It just might be that you can spend million more pages and still without any final agreement or conclution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW3PJ...eature=related

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and you come here and spoil the fun...you boring, boring man....

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Originally Posted by Torsen

yes the modern WRC car is SO much easier to drive... tell that to Gigi, PG, and everyone else who crashed out while driving a TON slower than the top two drivers... its a car that is vastly superior to the slow side ways rear wheel drive cars of old...

being skillful in a slow and sideways manner doesn't impress anyone... stage times do impress me... and Loeb is owning...

i got an idea... lets design a car that is so complicated to drive it requires a driver to play a chess game while turning the wheel! that way we'll really know who is the best driver... :rolleyes:

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Torsen there's a nice post here somewhere where the (previous to this event) 5th in the Whole WORLD driver Dani Sordo, in an inarguable top car in a Finnish event entered to get Sordito a bit more time on the almost unique Finnish roads has 12th in the World Toni Gardemeister nipping at his heels and being as close as 1.4 sec/km to the times of Sordo in the WRC CITROEN.
Got that?
The interval was closer than usual for them.
Sordo in maybe the best WRC car.




Gardemeister was in his private, rwd BMW normal aspirated 6.

If YOU are not more impressed by Gardemeister's speed and style in that rwd Bmw so close to the current 5th in the World works driver in the best team, then you don't know what you're looking at.

For your record, the best Gp4 drivers in the stone-age rwd Escorts and Asconas and Fiat 131s etc average speed on stage was about 3mph slower than the best of the Group B super cars, a small difference visually.
Bear in mind that the same actual drivers were often in both the Gp4 cars and the GpB cars which replaced them. Single variable test.

You have NO IDEA how fast good rwd drivers were and still are.

If the flag by your name is correct, I can understand why you have no idea of what fast is because you've never seen FAST in USA.
If you think what you may have seen in USA is fast, reflect for a moment again on the placings or speed of Gardemeister and dozens of others similarly quick, and the results of the 2 drivers from SRTUSA when they've dared to enter WRC events.

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Originally Posted by Woodeye

This forum is a bit silly. You guys have been arguing now about 5 pages if Loeb is faster than the guys in 80's or not. It just might be that you can spend million more pages and still without any final agreement or conclution. There's no way that you can know it or you can even compare it. Different eras, different drivers etc... Personally I couldn't care less.

At the moment Loeb is the fastest man in WRC and the victory in Jyväskylä proved this. It was a great battle to the end and it was great to follow it live once again. :) Congrats to Seb and Daniel for the victory.

And here's my favorite link from the weekend: If Garde wouldn't saved this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW3PJ...eature=related

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Oi oi oi I have put links to that on a couple of forums here in pooor neglected USA. It's times like that you rip the cloth off the seat with the butt-clench of the century! Saaaaataaaana!

But
I don't think anybody half serious would suggest that Loeb ISN'T the best now and has been for a while, no matter how much I like what I saw of Bosses personality.
I even said, we know he'll win unless there is some screw-up somewhere.

My point was he has just 2 very good but only 2 real threats and those 2 boys have less time than he at the top so less threat than at some times in the past when there was 10-12 equally experienced drivers in works cars.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

All of which is fine and dandy gramps. But Loeb is still the best of the drivers out here at the moment. He put guys like McRae, Tommi, Sainz and co in the shade and none of them ever had a bad thing to say about him and his skill level. Perhaps the nameless fan is you? :laugh:

I agree that the cars are different but the fundamentals of car control haven't changed all that much. If it were all so easy any twit with a few million dollars/pounds/euros off the street would be in the WRC and competing for victories. Funny thing is that it seems to be a lesser number of guys who can actually truly master WRCars and win rallies.

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Well sonny boy, I've never suggested Loeb isn't the best guy out there.
Quite the opposite, laddie.

You can search and waste your time---you obviously have lots of it--- to find the statements from McCrae, and Sainz etc. It's there in the record about "they nearly drive themselves".

Your last bit: FEWER GOOD DRIVERS seem to be able to find a way into works seats IF THEY DON'T have MILLIONS of personal money from daddy or tolerant sponsors just because there are so many rich "Gentleman drivers" filling all the places aside from the works Fords, Citras and Subarus.
The paradigm of how whole operations are financed, and thus who GETS to drive has changed to the model which ruins all other car racing.

Quadrupling or more the cost of the cars and spares tends to weed out all but the well financed.

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Originally Posted by Buzz Lightyear

its like schumacher writing off a ferrari road car 3 weeks ago on the notorious nurgenburg, then last week he had another road accident in a fiat van near silverstone... they think there are invincible on the roads as they are on the tracks.

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schumacher was in the passenger seat of the ferrari at the nurburging.

i don't think you can blame him for that one.

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Originally Posted by ste898

I think you got that wrong way round...

Being skillful in modern WRC car does'nt impress anyone..

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Except the people who appreciate drivers who have the talent to be faster than everyone else given any car.


Several people were blaming Loeb's advantage on active diffs in the WRC a few years ago. Since that was removed, he was still fastest. Coincidence? No.


FAST DRIVERS ARE FAST DRIVERS.

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Anyone that could drive a rear wheel drive or Group B car is a proper driver

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I can drive a rear wheel drive car. Wheres my medal?

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Several people were blaming Loeb's advantage on active diffs in the WRC a few years ago. Since that was removed, he was still fastest. Coincidence? No.

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and lets not forget the super fast secret michelin tyres only Loeb had to his disposal...