Should f1 run coupes?

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19th October 2011, 15:59
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

If they want to race in F1, they race with an open cockpit. If they want a pay cut and a roof over their heads to make them feel secure, they can join NASCAR, Touring Cars, WRC....

I think you've missed a few pages. Firstly I'm not suggesting in this case that a canopy would have saved Dan. So referring to close cockpit series' doesn't make sense given the topic of discussion at the moment. Secondly, things change. That the FIA investigated cockpit canopies suggests that they don't believe that having the driver exposed to debris and so on is an intrinsic part of F1. If they put a canopy and a rear bumper on then 99% of the people would still watch and everyone would get used to the changes as well have with all the other changes in the last 15 years or so.
19th October 2011, 16:05
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinho

not sure i can agree with that comment re. Senna (i don't know enough about the circumstances of Gilles death), but Senna died as a result of a probable car failure on a corner that was flat out, hardly a product of red mist or pushing too hard. An emotional person yes, who undoubtedly let his emotions cloud his judgement on occasions, but I really don't think its fair to say thats why he dies. It may have made it more likely he was going to have a big one, but that crash can't be down to those reasons IMO

Quote:

"No-one other than Ayrton Senna and me know what it was like to drive that car, through that corner, in that race, on that day, on cold tyres."

Hill added: "He was identified with pushing to the limit and beyond.

"He would often prefer to crash into his opponent rather than be defeated.

"It was not the fault of anyone else that he kept his foot flat when he could have lifted," said Hill.

Hill admitted that his views would not go down well with some.

"These opinions are sacrilege in the world of driving gods," he said. "Ayrton was a great driver and a man with enormous humanity. He was not a god. He was as frail and vulnerable as you or I."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/3641633.stm

In the new Autosport Legends/Senna book-zine Mark Hughes reckons the same thing.

1982 San Marino GP Ferrari gave implicit team orders to their drivers to slow down. Gilles was leading thought it meant hold station/postion but Pironi thought otherwise.

Gilles visibly unhappy on the podium.

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/im...mb=hXSDR8.LT94

During quali for the Belgian GP Gilles crashed into the back of Rene Arnoux, going for a gap that closing/wasn't there and the rest is history.
19th October 2011, 16:13
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge

In the new Autosport Legends/Senna book-zine Mark Hughes reckons the same thing.

1982 San Marino GP Ferrari gave implicit team orders to their drivers to slow down. Gilles was leading thought it meant hold station/postion but Pironi thought otherwise.

Gilles visibly unhappy on the podium.

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/im...mb=hXSDR8.LT94

During quali for the Belgian GP Gilles crashed into the back of Rene Arnoux, going for a gap that closing/wasn't there and the rest is history.

If we knew what was going on in the minds of the drivers in that 5-10 seconds before their accidents then we could say for sure, anything else is just a fairly well educated guess, as is me saying that a bumper could have saved Dan Wheldon.
19th October 2011, 16:21
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

If we knew what was going on in the minds of the drivers in that 5-10 seconds before their accidents then we could say for sure, anything else is just a fairly well educated guess, as is me saying that a bumper could have saved Dan Wheldon.

Senna's case we've seen him let his emotions get the better of him before
19th October 2011, 16:43
kfzmeister

http://www.iacoski.com/wp-content/th...300&zc=1&q=100
19th October 2011, 16:43
Robinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge

In the new Autosport Legends/Senna book-zine Mark Hughes reckons the same thing.

1982 San Marino GP Ferrari gave implicit team orders to their drivers to slow down. Gilles was leading thought it meant hold station/postion but Pironi thought otherwise.

Gilles visibly unhappy on the podium.

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/im...mb=hXSDR8.LT94

During quali for the Belgian GP Gilles crashed into the back of Rene Arnoux, going for a gap that closing/wasn't there and the rest is history.

from what i've seen on Gilles, I'd probably agree. And as I said, Senna certainly let himself be ruled by his emotions on more than one occasion, but IMO this was not one of them. Damon's testimony does shed some light on the subject that I hadn't read before, but from what I had understodd that corner should have been flat in normal circumstances, but it is true those laps weren't normal after the saftey car and Senna was certainly pushing at that stage in this career to get more from the car. I donät think this was his downfall though, nothing about it seemed like an ordinary driver error or over driven car to me
19th October 2011, 16:45
Robinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfzmeister

http://www.iacoski.com/wp-content/th...300&zc=1&q=100

I have to say I would not be entirely adverse to that being F1, it certainly wouldn't mae me stop watching.

how they are supposed to get in and out in that arrangement puzzles me, especially in an emergency or upside down
19th October 2011, 16:47
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfzmeister

http://www.iacoski.com/wp-content/th...300&zc=1&q=100

I have to say I quite like that. Big wheels or small wheels I think it'd look OK. Have some sort of IndyCar style bumper for the rear and we're set.

The more I look at that the more I like it.
19th October 2011, 16:50
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinho

I have to say I would not be entirely adverse to that being F1, it certainly wouldn't mae me stop watching.

how they are supposed to get in and out in that arrangement puzzles me, especially in an emergency or upside down

Rather true. I think it's fantastic that someone's taken the time to do a concept. It still looks VERY F1 to me.

Remove the air intake from the top of the car so it's not in the way and just have a latch system like the aerocatch system and we're part way there.

http://www.deftracing.com/aerocatch_...ocatch_all.jpg
19th October 2011, 16:52
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Such is the random nature of these sorts of accidents.

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

I would have thought it was quite obvious that stopping cars from flying or riding up on other cars would be a good thing.

Yes, it would be a good thing, but to ensure that never happens again the only thing to do is stop open-wheeled racing entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

...to my knowledge there hasn't been a death in the BTCC for quite a long time and yet the BTCC managed to be a really spectacular series with great racing.

But it is an entirely different kind of racing and not everyone wants to compete in or watch the BTCC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course you can't remove risk. But if you add bumpers to an open wheel racing car I don't quite see how you're removing some part of what your life is about. I think such pseudo-emotional language is a very poor excuse for someone needing to die.

If your seeing things in such narrow terms then no, adding bumpers does not remove part of what life is about.

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