[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

I think we will not see the team next year, No sponsors at all, and only the CEO of the team drives the car.

Maybe a few appearances in local events and a few WRC for fun.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You seem to have this strange habit of needing to defend people from down under.

Sadly in Australia and NZ the level of competition is well behind that which you get in Europe. There have been plenty of immensely talented drivers in various fields down under, but sadly if they don't leave and go to Europe or the US fairly early in their careers then their careers are generally guaranteed to flatline. People like Possum, Cody Crocker, Craig Lowndes and various others have reached the peak of their domestic championships but have just failed to compete on the world stage and it's not for lack of talent that's for sure. Have a look at Casey Stone and Mark Webber, the two most successful people that Australia has produced of late and the one thing they share is having gone to Europe by the time they were both 20 or so and they both moved onto high level competition shortly after.

It would be nice to see a woman in the WRC and not purely just because she's a woman, but sadly I think Emma's probably spent too much time in Australia and New Zealand and that will probably be a limiting factor on her future regardless of how much talen she has.

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Agree and disagree Daniel. In the Asia Pacific region, money has always being a limiting factor in getting the better drivers through the sport. Motor racing isn't as big in these regions, which makes it a playground for the rich, much like WRC now days when many drivers are forced to sit on the sidelines.

Getting to Europe is massively expensive for Aussies and Kiwis who find it hard enough to get sponsors in their own countries. Paddon has gone beyond what others have had to do to run this year, and it is why Atkinson is only running APRC, as he isn't going to come back with a half-arsed effort, that's just pointless. To do a 3 day event in Europe costs $60,000 to $80,000 for an outsider in a Group N4 car, once you hire the car, insurance, recce cars, tyres, pay for service crew, flights etc. It just is not sustainable for people to do that :P

So after all that I agree with you to an extent, but if the WRC wasn't so geared towards Europe, it might be a more achievable for non Europeans to get to the top level.

Back on Emma,
It will be interesting to see how she goes, she definitely won't be as fast as the others, but look what Atkinson did after preseason tests with Subaru in 2005. Top 10 times in Sweden in a new car, new surface, new tyres. Only other driver capable of this is Hayden Paddon. Emma is better than Molly Taylor by a long way, but yes, it's more the novelty of a decent female driver.

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Originally Posted by Plan9

I also think money is a problem for us down under. Scott Dixon tested for Williams in 2003 or something and didn't get a drive with any of the back teams, even though in that year the f1 field took on a few wealthy no-hopers. Paddon and Emma G will struggle to make a career in any international rally series as there is not enough corporate interest and European rich kids and ken blocks will take precedent over them always for that reason.

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Sadly, it’s the way of modern day Motorsport. Look at MotoGP – a huge amount of Spanish & Italian riders in the 3 classes, and to be brutally honest – far too many for a World Championship!! Similarly in WRC we’ve had many Finns getting drives, purely because they’re Finnish and get good backing, which considering how small the population is compared to Australasia doesn’t make sense.
Should it matter whether driver A or driver B is from Outer Mongolia or France? No, but France is a so called ‘more important’ market.

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Originally Posted by sollitt

Most of what you've written I actually agree with except this;
I actually very seldom 'defend' anybody from these parts. In this case I was merely correcting a typically outrageous fatuous statement made by your Grecian buddy.

... and this; I don't accept that this is necessarilly true. Make no mistake. The resources may be limited, which restricts the numbers who can play at the top level, but those who do are on a par with their counterparts from any other region. And the competition is fierce. You need look no further than Paddon for an example.

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I think mentioning Paddon somewhat proves my point. He's far younger than Gilmour and he's made the jump from NZ to Europe earlier and in a higher class. Of course the limited amount of funds influences what the level of competition, but what I'm trying to say is that if a driver stays in a country where the level of competition isn't as high as Europe for too long, then their career later on may be limited.

If I were an Aussie or Kiwi driver wanting a long and successful career then the first thing I'd try to do would be to make the move over to Europe.

Well world motorsport is a business, and in business money will always be the most important factor, its normal for the companies to go for the drivers with the best sponsors and backing because that will make their job easier. Sure everybody would like to see the fastest and the best drivers to get their chances but why go for a driver with no money when you can have one not far away in speed but with lots of money that can help the team ??

The problem you mention about the backing is everywhere in countries with no motorsport culture. Italy, Spain, France, Finland, USA have motorsport cultures which makes the crowds interested thus leading into companies throw money where the crowds are in order to make profit.

Its not welfare, its business.

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Originally Posted by Mitch555

Agree and disagree Daniel. In the Asia Pacific region, money has always being a limiting factor in getting the better drivers through the sport. Motor racing isn't as big in these regions, which makes it a playground for the rich, much like WRC now days when many drivers are forced to sit on the sidelines.

Getting to Europe is massively expensive for Aussies and Kiwis who find it hard enough to get sponsors in their own countries. Paddon has gone beyond what others have had to do to run this year, and it is why Atkinson is only running APRC, as he isn't going to come back with a half-arsed effort, that's just pointless. To do a 3 day event in Europe costs $60,000 to $80,000 for an outsider in a Group N4 car, once you hire the car, insurance, recce cars, tyres, pay for service crew, flights etc. It just is not sustainable for people to do that :P

So after all that I agree with you to an extent, but if the WRC wasn't so geared towards Europe, it might be a more achievable for non Europeans to get to the top level.

Back on Emma,
It will be interesting to see how she goes, she definitely won't be as fast as the others, but look what Atkinson did after preseason tests with Subaru in 2005. Top 10 times in Sweden in a new car, new surface, new tyres. Only other driver capable of this is Hayden Paddon. Emma is better than Molly Taylor by a long way, but yes, it's more the novelty of a decent female driver.

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I know what you're saying and that sadly is what drivers from that region have to deal with it or resign themselves to only ever being a national champion.

It's not a criticism of the region or the drivers. It's simply the way it is. Look as Casey Stoner and Mark Webber, they left Australia and never looked back. I know it's expensive, but if you want to compete at the top, staying in a rallying backwater (figuratively speaking) is not going to advance your career. Crocker, Bourne and Lowndes were all drivers who IMHO could probably be rally/race winners if they had left Australia and NZ earlier in their careers.

Atkinson's story is a sad one. I honestly think the guy had the speed to win a rally or two, but signing with Subaru in their twilight years sadly meant that he was always destined to fail and IMHO having Glenn MacNeal as a co-driver wasn't the best move and he improved rather a lot with Prevot alongside him even when the car seemed to be getting worse. I know a lot of people disagree on MacNeal, but he just had no rhythm to his notes and I think this was part of the reason why Chris, who was never a crasher, turned into one.

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Originally Posted by tfp

Its dog slow compared with the manufacturer cars:-)

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Yes....and you sholud definitely know as you tried both cars (Seb's and Peter's) or you were at least around when they had a common testing and you found with your hand watch that Peter is slower compared to SebI&SebII.
I'm tired of reading of this ''expert opinions''.....

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

The problem you mention about the backing is everywhere in countries with no motorsport culture. Italy, Spain, France, Finland, USA have motorsport cultures which makes the crowds interested thus leading into companies throw money where the crowds are in order to make profit.

Its not welfare, its business.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I know what you're saying and that sadly is what drivers from that region have to deal with it or resign themselves to only ever being a national champion.

It's not a criticism of the region or the drivers. It's simply the way it is. Look as Casey Stoner and Mark Webber, they left Australia and never looked back. I know it's expensive, but if you want to compete at the top, staying in a rallying backwater (figuratively speaking) is not going to advance your career. Crocker, Bourne and Lowndes were all drivers who IMHO could probably be rally/race winners if they had left Australia and NZ earlier in their careers.

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Both of you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY. It is a major marketing problem outside of Europe. Rallying is always going to cost 'an arm and a leg', however, I do believe FIA needs to have a rethink on rallying as a whole. You can't have a World Championship heavily based in Europe. If they want to really make rallying a premier sport again, there needs to be some risk taken and try and push into markets which are less used such as Africa, China, Japan, Australia/NZ and USA/Canada. Even FIA car regulations are biased towards European manufacturers. European cars are few and far between and cost more overseas due to importation taxes. Japanese cars are everywhere yet we don't really see them homologated for 2wd competition.

Australia and USA no longer use FIA regs as there is no manufacturer support which made it harder for decent drivers to get to the national level. It does go two ways, organisers of rallying at the national level also need to look at themselves and try to reinvigorate the sport in their own way, yet keep the FIA happy.

Anyhow... back on topic of News and Rumours :P

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Originally Posted by Mitch555

Both of you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY. It is a major marketing problem outside of Europe. Rallying is always going to cost 'an arm and a leg', however, I do believe FIA needs to have a rethink on rallying as a whole. You can't have a World Championship heavily based in Europe. If they want to really make rallying a premier sport again, there needs to be some risk taken and try and push into markets which are less used such as Africa, China, Japan, Australia/NZ and USA/Canada. Even FIA car regulations are biased towards European manufacturers. European cars are few and far between and cost more overseas due to importation taxes. Japanese cars are everywhere yet we don't really see them homologated for 2wd competition.

Australia and USA no longer use FIA regs as there is no manufacturer support which made it harder for decent drivers to get to the national level. It does go two ways, organisers of rallying at the national level also need to look at themselves and try to reinvigorate the sport in their own way, yet keep the FIA happy.

Anyhow... back on topic of News and Rumours :P

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Nah, lets continue on! This is a great topic.

I think you have to accept that Rallying is primarily a European sport. Even when Hyundai, Subaru, Toyota and Mitsubishi ran WRC campaigns they were Europe based efforts.

I think rallying needs to concentrate on having good events rather than having events in strategic markets. Bring the Safari back, perhaps go to Indonesia for another rally over that side of the world, but focus on quality rather than ticking boxes.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Nah, lets continue on! This is a great topic.

I think you have to accept that Rallying is primarily a European sport. Even when Hyundai, Subaru, Toyota and Mitsubishi ran WRC campaigns they were Europe based efforts.

I think rallying needs to concentrate on having good events rather than having events in strategic markets. Bring the Safari back, perhaps go to Indonesia for another rally over that side of the world, but focus on quality rather than ticking boxes.

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Yeah, concentrate on getting some stability and more Manufacturers in the sport. Then start thinking about growing into a proper World Championship. I think they've tried to run before they can walk - the sport just isn't big enough, yet.